Carillon

[sinkov]

"I cannot defend private companies being allowed to rape the taxpayers treasure trove, nor should you OC!"

But can you defend this sort of scam BT, just the tip of the Public Sector Fat Cat scandal iceberg ?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...g-240k-8783102

I do agree about the Charity scam BT, I'm extremely careful who I give my money to now, and I agree with Alfie and 59/60 about HS2, how on earth that's being allowed to proceed is beyond me, .

[1959_60]

To understand it you could look at Premier League wages.

It is a competitive market, the same as any other industry.

Even at Burnley we HAVE to offer massive wages to managers/players to compete, otherwise they wouldn't come here, or be off to get a better deal somewhere else.

I don't think anyone would suggest that Sean's salary be reduced - even though it is comparable to some of the "fat cats" named above.

I think most of us agree that there is too much money washing around in the Premier League but if the Prem imposed a salary cap on wages they would ply their trade in another country.

And that's the reality in business as well.

[oldcolner]

I cannot defend private companies being allowed to rape the taxpayers treasure trove, nor should you OC!

I have tried to find figures from the National Audit office on the scale of this pillage - here you go...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...MCNEWEML6619I2

The fact is taxpayers pay all the bills anyway whether it’s PFI or an in house build.

In the old days that you want to return to, we could afford few new buildings and you were in a queue to get your new hospital or school built. When Government tax take fell the old buildings weren’t maintained and you were further off getting your new one. When your new building was designed you often hadn’t to wait some years to build and technology and staff had changed making some things redundant. So more money spent on design changes
PFI can be a good thing in that you get your new place much faster as others fund the cost AND carry the risk of the building process. Design is fast and often you can use other designs as a template. What is difficult to assess is what is the value of the risk. In Liverpool the project hit problems leading to Carillon paying the NHS £1m a day in penalty charges for the delay. The second factor is how much is it worth to you to get a new hospital with new technologies installed and stop having to maintain an old one, using other people’s money. If you do that with a house you will pay at least twice the cost of your mortgage, if you do it in a credit card then lots more. PFI is effectively a mortgage at the end of which you own the property.

This issue about PFI is what premium is reasonable to have the benefits now. That’s what the Audit office still can’t say.

In Scotland the Government has built over 30 new schools by PFI there is no way they had the money to do that and in some ways it’s spending beyond their means leaving future generations to pay for them. That’s too much of a good thing.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

To understand it you could look at Premier League wages.

It is a competitive market, the same as any other industry.

Even at Burnley we HAVE to offer massive wages to managers/players to compete, otherwise they wouldn't come here, or be off to get a better deal somewhere else.

I don't think anyone would suggest that Sean's salary be reduced - even though it is comparable to some of the "fat cats" named above.

I think most of us agree that there is too much money washing around in the Premier League but if the Prem imposed a salary cap on wages they would ply their trade in another country.

And that's the reality in business as well.

I knew this would rear its ugly head!

The fact is workers are being put on zero hour contracts and often below the minimum wage whilst the CEO's are raking it in.

It does not look to me like the shareholders, stakeholders (us!) and workforce of Carillion were getting a decent return on the higher echelon's salaries and bonus payments.

[1959_60]

I understand your anger BT - I feel it too.

But, to keep the footy analogy going, I'll bet Burnley employ people on zero hour contracts (stewards?) whilst they also employ their own "fat cats".

I agree that the Carillion management have, to put it charitably, failed. They should be investigated, along with other parties (including politicians) to find out about their dealings. Heads must roll.

Burnley COULD choose to say, "We will do things differently. We will become a workers co-operative. The money would be paid out more equitably in our club and no one will get mega bucks."
But, as I am sure you will agree, what would happen is that our club would descend the footy pyramid very rapidly. Would that be a price worth paying?

As a country, we have no option but to play the game, otherwise we will soon become much poorer as a nation. We have to attract the best talent we can (as does our footy team) - it is just the way that the world economy has evolved.

Carillion has failed badly, just like some big football teams have (although they have still survived) - but a lot of people have made a lot of money in the process (as have some people at these clubs).

That's life. But Britain, like Burnley, have got to be competitive to survive and prosper.

[sinkov]

To understand it you could look at Premier League wages.

It is a competitive market, the same as any other industry.

Even at Burnley we HAVE to offer massive wages to managers/players to compete, otherwise they wouldn't come here, or be off to get a better deal somewhere else.

I don't think anyone would suggest that Sean's salary be reduced - even though it is comparable to some of the "fat cats" named above.

I think most of us agree that there is too much money washing around in the Premier League but if the Prem imposed a salary cap on wages they would ply their trade in another country.

And that's the reality in business as well.

But not in the Public Sector 59/60, the fat cats get fired from one job and walk into another in the Public Sector, looked after by their Common Purpose chums. They avoid the Private Sector like the plague, I wonder why ?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

In a long and very varied business career I have come across just two individuals who I would consider to be worth whatever they are or were paid.

My first choice will get loads of adverse comments and the second one I know will inspire accusations off brown nosing.

We do not have to play the game 1959-60, we just need to recognise proper talent, promote from within and a bit like we are doing with Brexit, find our own way and stop worshipping the neoliberal business paradigm.

Obscene salaries undermine the workforce and the profitability of the enterprise. Philip Green and Richard Branson epitomise this reverence to so-called entrepreneurial superstars but when the reality kicks in we find its all smoke and mirrors as usual.

I do not suffer fools gladly, I was brought up within the confines of a family who looked up to nobody but I would happily work with the sadly deceased Robert Maxwell, a man who rose from poverty to build a massive publishing empire, and who I personally did loads of agreeable mutual business. (I'm now ready to defend the alleged Mirror pension plundering!)

The second bloke who really impresses me is our very own CEO Dave Baldwin. The man has an incredible amount of knowledge, does not suffer fools gladly and runs a really tight ship at Turf Moor. With Sean Dyche steering the boat and Dave Baldwin navigating it, we won't go far wrong!

Sadly, I cannot think of any other entrepreneur who inspires one jot of confidence in me with the possible exception of Laurence Graff.

We really are in the s-h-i-t and make no mistake about it.

[1959_60]

BT, every big company in the UK has an HR department specifically for identifying talent.

Usually the best talent is found outside of the company, but quite often the companies DO promote from within.

There are countless successful companies in the UK with CEO's the equivalent of David Baldwin.

Yes, the key staff members are paid very well for doing their job but this doesn't mean that, because of internal pay differences, these companies will lose profitability.

Again, look at Burnley FC.

Is there a major pay gap between Sean Dyche and the people who sell the pies? Yes.
Does this cause friction in the company which affects our club? No.
Do Burnley look for talent and promote from within? Not generally. If we need a new centre half, say, then we do not simply promote a player from the development squad. We employ 5 people whose job it is to identify players from outside and attempt to sign them up. Just like a companies HR department.

Burnley run their business very well, but it is run very similarly to other successful businesses.

The model you are suggesting won't work for BFC and it won't work for big successful companies either.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

You get me all wrong 1959-60.

I have no objection to big money salaries for top performing CEO's, I just don't know of any, except the one we have at Turf Moor!

Because I'm a greedy git I can't stop working. I'm good at what I do and I earn better than decent dosh doing a job I love. If only I could stop supporting the Labour Party almost singlehandedly.

That's what socialists do!

[1959_60]

Well i can wholeheartedly recommend retirement BT!

And I thought that I would hate it.

We are all unique and we all have different passions.

We all seem to have a very strong views on politics on here - and it's great that these views are challenged but respected.

I get away pretty lightly when I admit that I'm a Lib Dem - we are still toxic with the voters in general. But their ideals are certainly nearer to my beliefs than the other parties. And I hate vested interests in politics - which we don't have in the Lib Dems. Well, nowhere near on the scale of the Tories, Labour or UKIP.