Leeds - Friends in High Places ...... No 'cos We Got the Rad !

[MrsORichSenior]

Recently I've been looking at Midland clubs finances detail ...........Mmm

So, Wolves on course for PL.
Not since Reading in 2006 with a 106 points haul was it such a cert.
Money does talk getting to the top now ........

A detailed investigation documentary by Nick McGeehan soon to be aired in UK 'bout the men behind Man City which shows how a regressive regime has sort to promote itself through investment into football will have serious repercussions ..................
The Wolves owner Guo Guangchang didn't build an empire without help from China's one party state ...........
Wolves haven't broken any rules yet - as FFP states no more than £39 million over three seasons if they go up and if they don't get up they'll escape punishment by offloading record buys Neves £15.5 million & Costa - deals done by Agent Jorge Mendes (agent of Ronaldo & Mourinho) in fact he is the Agent for many Wolves imports including their Manager Santo proving its 'who you know' in the game.With an unlimited budget for Wolves, and remaining buoyant in the PL,buying a whole new team will not be a problem - The Wolves owner has stated top four finish in PL recently is possible. Mmm,until it goes wrong and the owner 'flips' 'em onto a market not so keen on buying them as we well know.
Only one winner - Agent Mendes or any Agent given an unlimited budget but what about the bloke who is in charge of recruitment,in our case Orta on a budget.What that budget and plan is may not appear to be a chosen vein of discussion on 'ere but will be the answer to frustrations expressed,IMO.The policy he's doing is the policy the Rad wants doing in fairness and it's the Rads plan too.
MOT.

[WTF11]

Recently I've been looking at Midland clubs finances detail ...........Mmm

So, Wolves on course for PL.
Not since Reading in 2006 with a 106 points haul was it such a cert.
Money does talk getting to the top now ........

A detailed investigation documentary by Nick McGeehan soon to be aired in UK 'bout the men behind Man City which shows how a regressive regime has sort to promote itself through investment into football will have serious repercussions ..................
The Wolves owner Guo Guangchang didn't build an empire without help from China's one party state ...........
Wolves haven't broken any rules yet - as FFP states no more than £39 million over three seasons if they go up and if they don't get up they'll escape punishment by offloading record buys Neves £15.5 million & Costa - deals done by Agent Jorge Mendes (agent of Ronaldo & Mourinho) in fact he is the Agent for many Wolves imports including their Manager Santo proving its 'who you know' in the game.With an unlimited budget for Wolves, and remaining buoyant in the PL,buying a whole new team will not be a problem - The Wolves owner has stated top four finish in PL recently is possible. Mmm,until it goes wrong and the owner 'flips' 'em onto a market not so keen on buying them as we well know.
Only one winner - Agent Mendes or any Agent given an unlimited budget but what about the bloke who is in charge of recruitment,in our case Orta on a budget.What that budget and plan is may not appear to be a chosen vein of discussion on 'ere but will be the answer to frustrations expressed,IMO.The policy he's doing is the policy the Rad wants doing in fairness and it's the Rads plan too.
MOT.

Can't quite make out what the point of the post is.

Owner is a national of a one-party state, relevance? Perhaps as to how he made his money, but then you would have to ask about Sh1tty, Chelski etc etc, so no news there.

If Wolves haven't broken any rules, perhaps the point you're making is that paying top dollar for those with the skills and experience to build a team around is not such a bad idea?

Perhaps the point about the agent is that if a club finds an agent who knows what they are doing (and are willing to dip into deeper pockets than we seem to have), the probability of finding real talent is enhanced?

Whatever the owner has said about where the club might finish in the PL is just that, hyperbole, much like the aspiration for our finish position (at least in the case of Wolves there are clear indications that the owner intends to get to a place where competing in the PL is possible, not quite sure where Radrizzani exects/intends us to finish this season).

"One winner"? Errr......not if the statement in the first line of your post is correct. The club will "win" to the tune of around £190 just for getting promoted (conservative estimate, could be more with judicious milking of sponsors etc). Fairly good return on the <£39m investment possible before FPP kicks in?

Good question, "What about the bloke who is in charge of recruitment"......Not being discussed much on here, other than "leave him alone, he knows what he's doing and it will be alright on the night"..kind of. He failed at Middlesborough, he has been less than successful in his dealings at Leeds. Is it Radrizzanis policy, or that of Bravo and Orta, to which he has (for whatever reason) nailed his colours to the mast of? After all, just what experience does Radrizzani have of scouting and selecting football players? Errr....none. What experience does he have of owning and running a football club, in particular the mechanisms for acquiring talent in the playing, coaching and ancillary disciplines.....errrr, none. So doesn't it make more sense, a more logical conclusion, that he has been "advised" that doing what we are doing is the right thing, for a club like Leeds and for an owner without the mega-bucks available to others?

[MrsORichSenior]

Points being .....
Human rights abuse.
Source of money.
Investment of source of money.
Super Agent controlling staff employed by club.
If No money down the line = no club for community to support.

So no interest to you as your a Leeds fan.

Overall the Rad is 'a clean transparent' football club owner with limited resources compared to other 'owners' I mention above.
You preach success at all costs and expect the Leeds regime to compete with the above philosophy of spending without a clue where money/finance originates from and at what human cost.
You continually criticise our owners approach with no understanding or knowledge of what the Rad has immediately available or indeed what financial remit Orta is under.
You have not implemented an alternate plan for Leeds to initiate.

I have currently looked at ALL PL clubs accounts,all Championship accounts,all FL1 accounts,all FL2 accounts,all French Ligue 1 accounts,all Italian Serie 1 accounts which I've been asked to translate for various parties.

IMO - Leeds as a club are doing okay,a view undertaken with the facts at my disposal financially and Leeds as a club are transparent in all their dealings too.Leeds are a club in transition and within a budget too.
As for human rights issues I'm now off to Bosnia and Serbia,countries of recent times suffering heavy human rights issues and of which fans of clubs in those countries have factual stories to tell of how their clubs were financed prior and now - facts I'll use for balance for my required translated report.

My thread was posted for interest and for the interests of football WTF11 .........take it as you wish.
MOT

[WTF11]

Points being .....
Human rights abuse.
Source of money.
Investment of source of money.
Super Agent controlling staff employed by club.
If No money down the line = no club for community to support.

So no interest to you as your a Leeds fan.

Overall the Rad is 'a clean transparent' football club owner with limited resources compared to other 'owners' I mention above.
You preach success at all costs and expect the Leeds regime to compete with the above philosophy of spending without a clue where money/finance originates from and at what human cost.
You continually criticise our owners approach with no understanding or knowledge of what the Rad has immediately available or indeed what financial remit Orta is under.
You have not implemented an alternate plan for Leeds to initiate.

I have currently looked at ALL PL clubs accounts,all Championship accounts,all FL1 accounts,all FL2 accounts,all French Ligue 1 accounts,all Italian Serie 1 accounts which I've been asked to translate for various parties.

IMO - Leeds as a club are doing okay,a view undertaken with the facts at my disposal financially and Leeds as a club are transparent in all their dealings too.Leeds are a club in transition and within a budget too.
As for human rights issues I'm now off to Bosnia and Serbia,countries of recent times suffering heavy human rights issues and of which fans of clubs in those countries have factual stories to tell of how their clubs were financed prior and now - facts I'll use for balance for my required translated report.

My thread was posted for interest and for the interests of football WTF11 .........take it as you wish.
MOT

"Human rights abuse", levelled at the nation from which the Wolves owner hails, yes? My reply referred to the likes of City, and Chelski, whos owners hail from similarly repressive regimes, religiously fundamentalist, one-party states (or all combined!), and there are many others in the PL and Championship (and elsewhere I suspect), but who aren't singled out for criticism. Again, I just wonder what point was being made, and why solely about Wolves? The source of an owners funds are as varied and as open to criticism as there are clubs in the leagues, as we all know.

The investment of whatever funds are available is a legitimate subject for discussion, but there are plenty of responses on here that suggest we (the fans) just shut up and wait and see, so that's what I'll do, until and unless I see something transpire that show we are more determined to get quality in the 1st team squad, something sadly lacking at present and which has not been helped by much of the "recruitment" (sounds like the kind of thing McDonalds would do), under Ortas leadership.

As to the control of those who arrives and leaves, at least the interests of the agent are more explicitly focussed on individual player performance, as their livelihood depends upon said players at least being marketable, and hopefully of increased market value, something or DoF wouldn't be able to take to the bank, given current performance. And its hardly credible to suggest that Christiansen has any say whatsoever in who we acquire (despite his performance with his dossier!).

Radrizzani may be a transparent owner with limited funds, but if he felt like "flipping" us, he would, no different to any other business man, no matter how dodgy or otherwise their background might be. And I don't "preach success at all costs" far from it. I just wish there was some reality to what owners say. A top 6 finish in this league REQUIRES SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT if that nirvana is to be achieved this season as Radrizzani is on public record as having stated. Competing with what happens at Wolves and clubs like them, on and off the pitch, is required, and if that can't be done, say so (for whatever reason, be it lack of funds, a social conscience (as you imply we should be espousing to, however naive that might appear in terms of the footballing business) etc etc).

If neither Radrizzani nor the other board members believed that top-6 finish to be possible within this season, SAY SO. At least then supporters have a realistic picture of the road to the PL, which might involve a building period and one where "diamonds in the rough" could be found. As it is, we see next to no investment in areas we all know to be crying our for strengthening, players acquired and immediately loaned out, (to the benefit of who?), and performances that lay bare the frailties of the current 1st team squad.

You and others may think Leeds are "doing okay". "Okay" smacks of mid-table mediocrity, which we have had quite enough of thankyou very much. since taking over 100% ownership, Radrizzani has done what any sensible businessman would do, reduce costs (e.g. rental vs servicing the costs of money to purchase the ground), and acquire assets, but in order for there to be a step-change in the fortunes of the club, greater ambition (and levels of investment) have to be evidenced. The net benefit to a club like Wolves of promotion to the PL is in the order of £190m, and for a club like Leeds, I suspect considerably more. Yet here we are hoovering up rejects from the world over for what....£500k, £1m? (and then loaning them out!), with many posters commenting that we would "never pay that much", when figures of £3-4m get mentioned. Not suggesting an alternate plan, and I suspect neither owner, Head of Recruitment nor coach would take much notice (after all, they aren't taking notice of what is happening right in front of their eyes!) even if I did. Just prefer to see/hear some honesty and truth from them, so we can deal with it.

As for why you started the thread, I'm still puzzled. It seems more a puff piece for Leeds United generally and Radrizzani/Orta particularly, when there are growing concerns being expressed (in other threads on here and in other social media outlets), that neither is doing what they should.

[spaldy]

I tend to subcribe to the "karma is a b*tch" theory.

I think we were soundly punished and thrashed because we were a pioneer in the big money football scheme. We look like pikers compared to the current big money clubs. we got our comeuppance and I suspect that some of the other clubs will as well.

Hitching your cart to a chinese money source is dicey at best and ruinous at worst. Look at the debt that country has accumulated and we all know how effective government is at running economies and allocating resources. Socialism destroys all economies over time. Not a matter of if but when.

obviously, wolves will go up this year. what happens next will be kind of interesting. Thanks for posting Mrs. O.

[MrsORichSenior]

Man City as it is ........... documentary pre-edit translation.
"It’s highly doubtful that club ownership is primarily about generating income either, at least not directly. As stand-along businesses, the football clubs do not and will not generate the type of profits that interest these types of investors. Manchester City make much of the fact that the club has turned a net profit of £32.2 million in the last three years, but the net losses of the previous five seasons totaled £491.3 million — £121.3 million in 2009/10, £197.5 million in 2010/11, £97.9 million in 2011/12, £51.6 million in 2012/13, £23 million in 2013/14. When you throw in the cost of buying the club, estimated at £210 million, the losses from the 2008/2009 season, which the club do not appear to have published, and the £161 million net spend on players since it signed off its latest accounts, the net loss is probably close to £850 million. If the idea is to generate alternative revenue streams for the post-oil economy, they’re not doing a very good job of it."

Guo Guangchang ......
He's a member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference(CPPCC)
Guo has been detained by police and was "assisting authorities with an investigation", and had been "linked to a Chinese corruption case" - he was also under investigation for overseas buying sprees initiated by the Chinese government whom were wealth/financing their investment global portfolio through him.His recent acquisitions include Wolves and various European companies including Sun Med group of France - his company Fosun was also under Federal scrutiny in the USA regarding shares and bonds.He appears to,have been busy after been released by the Chinese government after "assisting their internal enquiries" ............

As I said,IMO,rather have the Rad ........ as for other owners,Mmm well that would take all day on 'ere but the finances are not pretty for sure.
MOT

[Billyni]

I prefer the Garth Brooks version. There's less verses to it.

[OldWhiteTaff]

I think the basic question, is would you be happy to have LUFC bought and used by the types of owners that own the likes of Man City, Chelsea and Wolves. Or for that matter the likes of the Glazers.

[MrsORichSenior]

Exactly OWT !

Add Newcastle to that list & maybe any interested parties connections too ......

For interest ............
So Championship clubs with money (desperate) are making moves in and out of the Championship but big Jan signings are not a guarantee without financial risk but it will depend on individual clubs planning financial strategy of where they WANT or HAVE to be THIS season - as Leeds stated a top six finish January should not be an area to splash massive cash unless the Rad has reshuffled his financial plans.
The Forshaw signing again suggests the sustainable five year plan on record is still to be followed with a few tweaks as opportunity or situations dictate.
On and off the pitch plans are being implemented too and as 'concerned' football fan Chris Knight wrote (below) football finance is not just about on the pitch but also looking after the next generation of Leeds fans too. ......................

...........For the third year in a row the BBC Price of Football survey showed that ticket prices in the UK are coming down, yet a separate poll by the BBC of 1,000 young adults, aged between 18 and 24, highlighted some worrying trends about the cost of football for us younger fans. The poll, conducted by ComRes, showed that only 11 per cent of young fans attend live football on a weekly basis and that only a further 15 per cent go more than once a month.
While it’s easy to hear stats like that and assume that we are all too busy playing FIFA or watching Sky Sports to attend, the truth is that for a lot of young supporters the cost of following a team is just too steep and it is putting off the next generation of fans. Attending a ground is no longer the only way to watch or engage with the game and clubs are not doing enough to ensure that young fans choose live action over the TV or a video game.

Clubs are doing better, with 92 per cent across England now offering specific young adult prices, although most stop at age 21, but even then they aren’t exactly cheap – a ticket at Manchester United still costs up to £40 for their 18-20 age bracket with no student deals available. This is a trend that carries all the way down the pyramid with student tickets at my club, Leyton Orient, who now play in the National League, still costing up to £18 and there are no over-18, non-student deals available.

Prices like that don’t provide value for money when the latest game of FIFA sells for £50 and offers hundreds of hours of play time that you can share with your friends, and clubs should be reducing ticket prices much more to entice young adults to football grounds. They could also look into working with universities and colleges to offer ticket deals that allow larger groups to attend football together, creating a stronger bond and sense of unity that is essential to supporting a team.

Over the last three or four years of being a student I have been increasingly unable to afford to attend matches, either at home or away, and this is an experience that is mirrored in a lot of my friends. Away games in particular have become all but impossible for people living on the ever-reducing student loans and this isn’t just the fault of ticket prices, with the cost of travel also playing a large factor.

It won't be news to any fans up and down Britain in the last few years to watch football that train companies are asking for increasingly silly sums to go to support your team and this is hitting young adults particularly hard, with almost two thirds saying the cost of travel was a hindrance on going to games (railcards or not).

Away games are crucial for forming real club bonds and they tend to produce the best atmosphere and the strong sense of community that is essential if someone is to commit so much time and money to one particular team. If young fans miss out on these experiences they are much less likely to develop a real love for a team, and footballing authorities and clubs should be trying to work with train companies to offer proper deals and incentives to get young fans to games.

This is an issue that clubs and the football authorities should be taking seriously. Most of the older supporters I know have been fans since they were children and have never stopped attending. That cycle is being broken in young adults and you have to wonder where the next generation of fans will come from. Lots of people I know haven’t developed a proper connection to one particular team and increasingly our support is changing based on which team is playing the best football; this isn’t because young people all seek instant gratification in a social media world, it’s because we are being priced out of attending, and forming those bonds at that age defines what being a football fan means.

MOT

[Tichi1]

Amanda Stavely is reputed to be interested in a takeover at ER......

That should please WTF11....