New Signings, shambles

[gazan]

ruocul - " i don't agree" does not mean "I think everything you say is wrong therefore I think the exact opposite". This is not how discussion/argument works. Please just deal with the points raised rather than 'going off on one' and suggesting that people are saying things they didn't actually say.
I like discussion and when its quiet I sometimes raise topics just for the sake of discussion. However, just disagreeing and twisting ideas is not discussion!

[ruocul]

Be more than pleased to meet both yourself and young Lowery to view some of the cd`s of recent matches. Would be interested in both your reactions.

He is also the type of player who keeps giving the ball away and keeps getting caught in possession

[MikeSB]

"The players we have signed..." - do you mean those on loan or the senior players signing contracts?

The loans: Stubbs, a young lad not quite good enough to hold down a place. Grant: any better than ours? Certainly not better than Jones, had he not been injured, and better than Lowery??? You really do have a 'fixed' view on Lowery, and I certainly haven't seen your ludicrous assertion that team-mates don't want to give him the ball. He probably has more touches of the ball than any other player, each time he plays.

The new loans, McKindy & Barlaser; hopefully they'll be good additions to the squad (which we need), but you can't possibly have formed a valid opinion on them after their brief appearances. Paul Green seems a clear improvement on Grant, but then why wouldn't he be, with his experience?

The signings (Porter, Bowery, Raynes, Nolan): these are guys with experience anyway, and perhaps all were needed, so comparisons with our own younger players coming through would be pointless and meaningless.

As the manager has pointed out - as if he needed to - at a club like Crewe where young players sign because they can see an early pathway in first team football, you will always (and have always) have the 'problem' of how much time to give those players who make it as far as the first team, and how to nurture them and guide them through to a regular place. That's the nature of the club, but the younger players seem to be copping a greater share of the flak, especially this season, than hitherto. They need our support, not all these negative vibes, not least because it's the younger ones who are more likely to use social media.

Derek, re your comment that "Young players sign here because they see an early pathway in first team football"?

And just now you gave criticised Luckor for not providing facts etc....and so I know this has been discussed many times but you keep making assertions too that has no basis of fact and so IF you want to provide some, I would appreciate it but if not, no worries.

It's always been my contention that its ONLY local kids come to our academy because well they are 'local' and easier for their parents to transport them to Reaseheath and back again. That is a huge commitment for working parents even then..Of course what is local? 5 -20 miles? 40 miles even? So I would be interested in knowing how many kids we have had over the years and now today, ONLY choose the Alex for the reasons you said which obviously means they had a choice of other clubs like Liverpool, ManC, ManU, Stoke who have Cat 1 academies for the last 5 years and where you have stated have more intensive and higher quality coaching than our Cat2 would have or a Cat3 and so how many 'local' kids have chosen to go to these other clubs? 1, 5? 10? I'm not saying there may not be the odd one over the years? My idea of local would be Warrington, Northwich, Wilmslow, Stoke, Wrexham, Chester...Shrewsbury.

We know that Dean Ashton had trials or was on the books at Stoke and came here because we gave him the opportunity to play in our first team but imo that was the ONLY reason and not for the coaching...But that is supposition on my part.

That is the same reason why loanees come here including other academy players ie to get games and not for the coaching and that brings me back to my oft point is its not the level of academy that draws players or kids but the obvious opportunity of getting games which increases their chance of the big time....

So its true they come here to get games but not for the reasons you and others have stated many times...

Can you name me just ONE kid 5-14 say who used to go to RH for coaching and now goes to a Cat 1 academy? That should help your case a little but if you can find half a dozen it would help a lot LOL ie IF coaching is so so important to parents and their kids...

I have no real facts to support my suppositions so it should be easy to disprove...One way or the other? The only facts I have is when I read where our academy kids that sign Pro forms have come from they are ALWAYS local..and therefore the quality of the academy intake can only reflect the natural ability of kids which is very changeable and why spending a million pounds on 'hope' makes no commercial sense whatever...and not fair on the real fans that only go to FIRST team games when the money is so tight for them and for the club....

[ruocul]

Gazan you are more than welcome to disagree with my posts along with everyone else. That is what message boards are for. But please do not lecture me. I would never do that to amyone and therefore do not appreciate it.

If you would prefer a messageboard where everyone is singing from the same page in the hymn book just let me know.

[bigroof]

Gazan you are more than welcome to disagree with my posts along with everyone else. That is what message boards are for. But please do not lecture me. I would never do that to amyone and therefore do not appreciate it.

If you would prefer a messageboard where everyone is singing from the same page in the hymn book just let me know.

"I would never do that to anyone" - but you do, whether you realise it or not!

[bigroof]

First of all Mike, I haven't criticised ruocul/lukcour over 'facts', at all, anywhere! I have merely mildly criticised him for presenting his own opinions almost 'as fact'!

Secondly, my assertion that players come here because they see an early pathway into first team football is merely repeating what Dario has suggested in the past and Dave Artell has also said. It's been a big selling point to parents and boys, over those years.

Obviously over the years the majority of boys the club have coached, have come from the local area you have defined. Some have switched from other Academies during their ****age years, for whatever reasons.

Dan Trickett-Smith, backed/encouraged by his parents, chose to go to Liverpool's Category 1 Academy. Dario, along with other coaches no doubt, encouraged him to stay. Liverpool wanted him. (I don't know where he lived, by the way.) It didn't work out for him. He left, and went to play for a club in a lower U.S.A. league, then returned, and now plays for Leek Town, a level below Nantwich, albeit with the guidance of Neil Baker there, so perhaps he could get back on track.

He is the only one I know of; there may have been others. Before the categorisation of academies Steve Walters and Seth Johnson came here from the south-west. Who knows, there may have been others who came from further afield.

Your definition of local gives scope for quite a lot of potential talent, which Crewe have tapped well. I've no idea how many 'local' boys have gone to other Academies or schools of excellence over the last 30 years.

Does all this answer your questions?

[bigroof]

Be more than pleased to meet both yourself and young Lowery to view some of the cd`s of recent matches. Would be interested in both your reactions.

He is also the type of player who keeps giving the ball away and keeps getting caught in possession

Show me a midfielder who doesn't misplace a pass, or get caught in possession. I can think of a number of occasions when Lowery himself has caught an opponent in possession. I'll decline the offer of watching a CD with you, or even a DVD, as I'm pretty sure he doesn't "keep" doing these things.

[MikeSB]

First of all Mike, I haven't criticised ruocul/lukcour over 'facts', at all, anywhere! I have merely mildly criticised him for presenting his own opinions almost 'as fact'!

Secondly, my assertion that players come here because they see an early pathway into first team football is merely repeating what Dario has suggested in the past and Dave Artell has also said. It's been a big selling point to parents and boys, over those years.

Obviously over the years the majority of boys the club have coached, have come from the local area you have defined. Some have switched from other Academies during their ****age years, for whatever reasons.

Dan Trickett-Smith, backed/encouraged by his parents, chose to go to Liverpool's Category 1 Academy. Dario, along with other coaches no doubt, encouraged him to stay. Liverpool wanted him. (I don't know where he lived, by the way.) It didn't work out for him. He left, and went to play for a club in a lower U.S.A. league, then returned, and now plays for Leek Town, a level below Nantwich, albeit with the guidance of Neil Baker there, so perhaps he could get back on track.

He is the only one I know of; there may have been others. Before the categorisation of academies Steve Walters and Seth Johnson came here from the south-west. Who knows, there may have been others who came from further afield.

Your definition of local gives scope for quite a lot of potential talent, which Crewe have tapped well. I've no idea how many 'local' boys have gone to other Academies or schools of excellence over the last 30 years.

Does all this answer your questions?

Thanks Derek appreciate your thought and indeed all matters re our academy. I see Italy has failed to qualify for the world cup finals and don't know how in many years that has happened but it all adds to to my thinking that football talent is cyclic and that is the risk of putting all your eggs in one basket as we have done over many years. I don't criticise the board for doing that because it worked for a while but times change and the club has been reluctant to change with the times only because they and Dario in particular saw the academy as a 'production line' and it was only a matter of coaching particularly when young will generate success and income. If we get relegated God forbid then that will have to end and millions down the drain when acting sooner may have produced a better squad and better results. Yes, that costs too but other clubs our size shows it can be done. I accept their performances are cyclic too and maybe a flash in the pan for a season or two. It seems like its Shrewsbury's turn at the mo but I will finish on this..

I was driving along Nantwich Road on Saturday about 4pm passed the Railway Station and looked up at the Alex Main Stand which you can see from there and I know only the top half can be seen but it was almost empty and so like many more, football at the lower league level is not attracting the fans due to many things, not least, the standard of football, the results, the league position and of course the cost of admission which is still too high, at least on the gate! imo.

I still maintain that watching or even playing football at this time of year while taking May, June and July off is just plain daft as who wants to freeze their nuts off watching L2 when it could be short sleeves and warm sunshine and if its a spectator sport as it should be, then that is when we should be playing evening matches if necessary Friday or Saturday which would allow parents and families to spend time together and allow time to watch live football too..

I don't accept its too hot, or that the pitch suffers, it surely is not good playing through winter and so there you go and once again, its the fuddy duddies at FA and club level that can't see it....The ONLY reason why we play through winter is because of tradition and the cricket season started and finished in that close season and that is all...I've always been ahead of my time though....

BTW all clubs have the facility to show live games now streamed to our laptops and phones and so how long before Clubs like ours makes that available, pay per view? I would subscribe certainly!

ATB,

Mike

[gazan]

but ruocul you did it again!
I asked for argument but you then misrepresented my position/idea.

[gazan]

ruocul - just to clarify - where in my 'lecture' do I say that we all have to "sing from the same page"?