The Big Team n the City

[psych]

Well done Ram this should be the end of any debate...Dundee 93 years of top flight football to United's 58...and the gap aint closing anytime soon

HISTORY TELLS NO LIES

So the debate is not settled by things like honours, size of support, record in European competition etc it is number of years in top flight. If that is the case then Everton are the biggest club in England.

[Charlie arab]

So the debate is not settled by things like honours, size of support, record in European competition etc it is number of years in top flight. If that is the case then Everton are the biggest club in England.

John Gotti will have something to say about that!

[TerryTheTerror]

This thread is a great idea. If I see any of this BS in any others I'll take action.

[Arabdad]

This thread is a great idea. If I see any of this BS in any others I'll take action.

I think a single thread to have this "banter" with followers of the wee big club is a great idea. Leaves the rest of the forum free for the rest of us Arabs to discuss how our team can stop being so crap and try and win some games.

[RAM1971]

Forfarshire Cup

The Forfarshire Cup competition has been run by the Forfarshire Football Association most years since 1883-84, for member football clubs in Angus (Forfarshire), Dundee and latterly Perth. During latter years the competition was either not held or not completed some years because teams such as DUFC and DFC were unable to compete due to the amount of fixtures in other competitions, etc. Not being a national or major competition, the Forfarshire Cup has become looked upon as a Diddy Cup in recent decades, and teeters on the brink of extinction. However it was not always so and for many years it was regarded as a fairly major, local, competition.

The main winners of the trophy are unsurprisingly Dundee FC and Dundee United FC. Dundee have won the trophy 28 times, whilst Dundee United have won the trophy 24 times (the first three times as Dundee Hibernian). Dens Park was often the ‘Hampden’ for the Final of the tournament.

Dundee FC were founded in season 1893-4 and Dundee United were founded in season 1909-10, some 16 years after Dundee FC. Between their foundation and 1908-09, Dundee FC won the Forfarshire Cup on six occasions. These successes occurred before Dundee United Football Club came into existence. This means that since Dundee United were founded, Dundee FC have won the Forfarshire Cup 22 times as opposed to Dundee United’s 24 times.

Over the course of the tournament Dundee FC have won the trophy more times than Dundee United, but since their foundation Dundee United FC have won the trophy more times than Dundee. There have been eleven head to head Finals between the two Clubs, United winning six (once as Dundee Hibs) and Dundee have won it five times.

Throughout the first half of their history Dundee United were a Second Division Club, other than 2-3 very brief flirtations with the top league, whilst Dundee were a First Division Club. In 1959 Dundee United established themselves as a top flight Club and a rough parity between the two Clubs existed until the late 1970s, when United went on to enjoy unprecedented success and Dundee entered a period of generally struggling between top and second flight status. From 1959 to the late 80s, by which time both Clubs were regarding the competition as an inconvenience, Dundee United won the trophy 16 times as opposed to Dundee’s 8 times. United won 5 of the head to heads during that time and Dundee won 3.

Dundee FC have clearly won the completion more times than Dundee United, i.e. 28 times and 24 times respectively, but since their foundation, Dundee United have won the competition more times, i.e. 24 times as opposed to Dundee’s 22 times. With regards to head to head Finals, United have won these 6 times as opposed to Dundee’s 5 times.

There is not a lot to separate the two teams in this competition. Earlier Round meetings between the sides may broaden the picture?

[shedboy71]

This thread is a great idea. If I see any of this BS in any others I'll take action.

my c0ck is bigger than you c0ck Terry! - Gotti asked me to pass that on for ya

[shedka]

4,800 home fans yesterday counting season ticket holders that don't go, reality is they are getting 3-4k regular

Averaging just over 6k ("officially") in the top flight is pish, especially with over 15k away fans taken into account between the visits of Celtic, Sevco, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs and Farmers

A top flight United would never see a lower average than the low 7000's and more often than not in the 7500-8500 region

Our collective c0ck is bigger

[shedboy71]

4,800 home fans yesterday counting season ticket holders that don't go, reality is they are getting 3-4k regular

Averaging just over 6k ("officially") in the top flight is pish, especially with over 15k away fans taken into account between the visits of Celtic, Sevco, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs and Farmers

A top flight United would never see a lower average than the low 7000's and more often than not in the 7500-8500 region

Our collective c0ck is bigger

[ootdoor]

4,800 home fans yesterday counting season ticket holders that don't go, reality is they are getting 3-4k regular

Averaging just over 6k ("officially") in the top flight is pish, especially with over 15k away fans taken into account between the visits of Celtic, Sevco, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs and Farmers

A top flight United would never see a lower average than the low 7000's and more often than not in the 7500-8500 region

Our collective c0ck is bigger

A top flight Utd...... OMHS.

Weakest Fundesliga in decades and you ****ed it before February.

[RAM1971]

The Fizzy Cup

Perhaps Didier than the Forfarshire Cup, but possibly having more fizz, the Scottish Challenge Cup entered its first year during season 1990-91. Originally planned as a one off tournament it became seasonal fare for the diddy teams (i.e. those outside the top flight). Dundee FC were the winners of the inaugural tournament. They were runners-up in season 1994-05 and winners again during season 2009-10. Dundee FC have competed in the Fizzy Cup on 13 occasions, winning the trophy twice and being runners-up once.

The Shed have competed in this tournament on three occasions, being runners-up in season 1995-96 and winning the trophy during season 2016-17. During the 1995-96 competition the Tangerines went all the way through the tournament, including extra time in the Final, without conceding a single goal, only to let the cup slip from their grasp by losing a penalty shoot-out to Stenhousemuir.

Both Dundee Clubs are normally associated with top flight football in Scotland, so qualification for the Scottish Challenge Cup comes through failure, i.e. relegation and also remaining in a lower tier of Scottish football, without which they cannot enter the tournament. Therefore, whilst it must be regarded as a failure for either of Dundee’s Clubs to be found competing in this tournament, the winning of the trophy, or indeed being runners-up should be regarded as a measure of success, albeit of a standard way below the winning of one of the major honours in Scottish Football.

To sum things up. Failure has resulted in Dundee FC competing in the Fizzy Cup tournament on 13 occasions, during which they have won the trophy twice and been runners-up once. Through failure Dundee United FC have competed in this tournament on three occasions, winning the trophy once and being runners-up once. This means that the greater failure of Dundee FC in the top tier has resulted in them having more success in this tournament than Dundee United FC, having gained entry to the tournament on ten more occasions.

With Dundee FC currently struggling as a bottom feeder in the Premier League and Dundee United hovering about as a top feeder in the Championship, there exists the possibility of one or other, or both of the Dundee teams, through failure, competing in next season’s Fizzy tournament. On the other hand, success for both teams would allow them to escape the ignominy of entry. However, as a measure of success is attributed to winning the trophy and Dundee FC lead the way in this, 2-1 over United, it is incumbent upon the Tangerines to rectify this matter some day!