Please go now, Artell

[AstonAlex]

Not naive, Mike, just more open to change and prepared to move with the times. Oh, and it doesn’t cost me (or you) £23 to watch the mighty reds. £17 for a ticket in the main stand for senior citizens or £208 for a season ticket, which works out at £9.04 per match.

Check your facts, get some perspective and, while your at it, a sense of humour wouldn’t go amiss - I’ll get me tin hat now.

[Timmy58]

You are being so naive its unbelievable. If you haven't see those days then you are in NO position to judge are you.

There were some serious injuries but very very few and can't think of any Alex player from that era getting seriously injured. If you want to watch ballet dancing that's fine but it was a really great time to be watching the really great players of the time and many were ours too...

You are too timid and as I said, its a matter of opinion and the teams you mentioned or even ours now could not live with the players I watched. They also could not play on the pitches and most of the academy kids we see would not have made it back then.

It was not a thugs game at all, it was a MAN'S game for men and if you really want to see academy kids, then go and watch them at RH for free...23 quid for ballet is far too much for me and tens of thousands of others that used to watch those MEN's games. I have to say that when I do go to Gresty Road, all I hear is a load of moaning. Its not somewhere you will find me that many times and so keep paying to watch the girlies play...

The academy has to come into every discussion because we are an academy team mostly and that costs a cool one million pounds per season to be where? Check the league tables for the last few years..

To be fair Mke, Ballet is an art relying on extreme fitness and strength whilst at the same time appearing very delicate and dainty. Ballet is not my cup of tea at all, but the thought of Jordan Bowery in a tutu could be quite amusing. Maybe against Cheltenham!! On the subject of cost, £23 for ballet, or any form of theatrical entertainment is not expensive and whilst the price of attending a football match may seem expensive it is probably comparable. The concessions for old timers like myself make it affordable and I share Aston's view totally that harking back to the "good old days" when common assault was permitted on a football pitch in the name of tackling would be a backward step and the game would be less appealing. If you want a debate on what has gone wrong with English football then lets have one but maybe not on a thread about our manager's position. I, personally love watching our youngsters come into the team and show their skills in meaningful competition. Would not wish to go back to the days of thugs like Billy Bremner, Norman Hunter and Jimmy Case. Aston could doubtless offer more names but it is irrelevant to today's game because it is geared towards fitter and more skillful players due to, you guessed it, training and coaching. Coaching benefits sportsmen and women in all sports.

[MikeSB]

To be fair Mke, Ballet is an art relying on extreme fitness and strength whilst at the same time appearing very delicate and dainty. Ballet is not my cup of tea at all, but the thought of Jordan Bowery in a tutu could be quite amusing. Maybe against Cheltenham!! On the subject of cost, £23 for ballet, or any form of theatrical entertainment is not expensive and whilst the price of attending a football match may seem expensive it is probably comparable. The concessions for old timers like myself make it affordable and I share Aston's view totally that harking back to the "good old days" when common assault was permitted on a football pitch in the name of tackling would be a backward step and the game would be less appealing. If you want a debate on what has gone wrong with English football then lets have one but maybe not on a thread about our manager's position. I, personally love watching our youngsters come into the team and show their skills in meaningful competition. Would not wish to go back to the days of thugs like Billy Bremner, Norman Hunter and Jimmy Case. Aston could doubtless offer more names but it is irrelevant to today's game because it is geared towards fitter and more skillful players due to, you guessed it, training and coaching. Coaching benefits sportsmen and women in all sports.

Aston, I do have a great sense of humour but taking Timmy's point about the game having more skilful players as a result of erm, coaching...I will disagree with that until the cows come home as they are not in anyway more skilful than the likes of Greaves, Best and Charlton and many many players I have seen at Gresty Road and yes its boring to some to hark on about the past and maybe its just an age thing when we think of the best and forget the worst etc but I can see Greaves now dancing through defences and Jimmy White placing the ball in the top corner and I would argue that packed defences lead to poor quality of matches, less skill as they either mispass the ball or hoof it up the pitch and how many times do we see players doing what those great players of yesteryear did? Messi is on a par with them. No Crewe player has scored more hat tricks than Lord and that must tell us something that is not done at all today very often no matter what league they are in. I don't think I have seen much 'skill at all at Gresty Road these last few years tbh.

Coaching or as I prefer the term developing takes place naturally as I explained, I was a better player at 21 than 18 and better at 18 than 15...nowt to do with coaching..

Developing natural talent is quite easy as its just down to recognising that at around age 16 plus and the opportunity and our academy makes the point really. No other lower league club has our level apart from a couple...48 clubs and just two or three prefer to spend a million pounds a year and most are more successful than we are and I would suggest that continuing with our model will not achieve much success nowadays as the players in the lower leagues are fit and strong and few academy graduates can cope until they have had two or three seasons at this level and developing their bodies in the meantime...

Coaching 8 year old is nonsense and always will be...Not just that, if they are really really good, then some other club will come in way before we get the benefit and we haven't even touched on the prima donnas who refuse to sign contracts is another nail in the coffin don't you think?

BTW, I accept us seniors get to pay 17 quid for a match and ST's lower that but you know even with inflation the costs are way about what they were and when you compare what was on offer then, to what is on offer now, probably a fiver is about right.... ....

[Timmy58]

Aston, I do have a great sense of humour but taking Timmy's point about the game having more skilful players as a result of erm, coaching...I will disagree with that until the cows come home as they are not in anyway more skilful than the likes of Greaves, Best and Charlton and many many players I have seen at Gresty Road and yes its boring to some to hark on about the past and maybe its just an age thing when we think of the best and forget the worst etc but I can see Greaves now dancing through defences and Jimmy White placing the ball in the top corner and I would argue that packed defences lead to poor quality of matches, less skill as they either mispass the ball or hoof it up the pitch and how many times do we see players doing what those great players of yesteryear did? Messi is on a par with them. No Crewe player has scored more hat tricks than Lord and that must tell us something that is not done at all today very often no matter what league they are in. I don't think I have seen much 'skill at all at Gresty Road these last few years tbh.

Coaching or as I prefer the term developing takes place naturally as I explained, I was a better player at 21 than 18 and better at 18 than 15...nowt to do with coaching..

Developing natural talent is quite easy as its just down to recognising that at around age 16 plus and the opportunity and our academy makes the point really. No other lower league club has our level apart from a couple...48 clubs and just two or three prefer to spend a million pounds a year and most are more successful than we are and I would suggest that continuing with our model will not achieve much success nowadays as the players in the lower leagues are fit and strong and few academy graduates can cope until they have had two or three seasons at this level and developing their bodies in the meantime...

Coaching 8 year old is nonsense and always will be...Not just that, if they are really really good, then some other club will come in way before we get the benefit and we haven't even touched on the prima donnas who refuse to sign contracts is another nail in the coffin don't you think?

BTW, I accept us seniors get to pay 17 quid for a match and ST's lower that but you know even with inflation the costs are way about what they were and when you compare what was on offer then, to what is on offer now, probably a fiver is about right.... ....

Coaching is clearly not nonsense, but you are entitle to your view however misguided I consider it. As for a fiver to watch a football match. You seriously need to catch the first train out of cloud cuckoo land if you think that is reasonable or need feasible. There wouldn't be a football club left at that rate!

[gazan]

player seriously injured in the 60s? Easy - one Gordon Wallace an Alex star of his time. He did recover enough to reappear in a red shirt but didn't last long.
Let's think about the 'men' of that era Norman Hunter, Ron Harris and Case (mentioned above) or closer to home Alan Summerhill or Ray Lugg. They weren't called destroyers for nothing!

[gazan]

As for Frank Lord scoring more hat-tricks... that just underlines the fact that defences were less skillful in those days.
There were probably too many playing a 'man's game' to be any good at real defending!

[alexmick]

player seriously injured in the 60s? Easy - one Gordon Wallace an Alex star of his time. He did recover enough to reappear in a red shirt but didn't last long.
Let's think about the 'men' of that era Norman Hunter, Ron Harris and Case (mentioned above) or closer to home Alan Summerhill or Ray Lugg. They weren't called destroyers for nothing!

With respect, Gazan, I recall that Ray Lugg was quite an accomplished and polished midfielder, who had a certain amount of skill during his five years with the Alex. I cannot remember him being a thug. Good at taking penalties and a born leader (captain). As for Gordon Wallace, now there was a player. I witnessed the horrendous double leg break at the hands of Garvey (Watford) in 1968. That tackle was not malicious (unlike many from the likes of Bremner, Stiles and Hunter) and the referee only sent the player off to protect him from the Alex players (as reported in The Sentinel). Wallace had already suffered a similar injury at Liverpool and the fact that medical science was not as well developed as it is today, perhaps meant that this player never really recovered from that awful injury. I don't think a little nostalgia on here is a bad thing, by the way. There were some memorable moments in the 1960s and some damn good football played too.

[Timmy58]

With respect, Gazan, I recall that Ray Lugg was quite an accomplished and polished midfielder, who had a certain amount of skill during his five years with the Alex. I cannot remember him being a thug. Good at taking penalties and a born leader (captain). As for Gordon Wallace, now there was a player. I witnessed the horrendous double leg break at the hands of Garvey (Watford) in 1968. That tackle was not malicious (unlike many from the likes of Bremner, Stiles and Hunter) and the referee only sent the player off to protect him from the Alex players (as reported in The Sentinel). Wallace had already suffered a similar injury at Liverpool and the fact that medical science was not as well developed as it is today, perhaps meant that this player never really recovered from that awful injury. I don't think a little nostalgia on here is a bad thing, by the way. There were some memorable moments in the 1960s and some damn good football played too.

No problem with nostalgia Mick.I just don't buy into this crap that everything was better 50 years ago or whatever. It doesn't stand comparison because it is totally different.

[objective]

Surely it is time close out this thread............a)most of recent posts have nothing whatsoever to do with Dave Artell. Artell is not going anywhere and at least start a new thread with an appriopriate title. Thanks in anticipation.

[Timmy58]

Surely it is time close out this thread............a)most of recent posts have nothing whatsoever to do with Dave Artell. Artell is not going anywhere and at least start a new thread with an appriopriate title. Thanks in anticipation.

Bang on fella. Unfortunately most if not all posts lead us down the Academy path.