Forida Shooting

[Robus]

It is cooked. A commonly cited version of that stat holds that "gun violence" kills 30k per year. They do not tell you that 2/3 of those are suicides, nor do we hear much about "rope violence." Of the 10k bona fide gun homicides that happen yearly here, half are the product of an inner city subculture that has nada to do with mainstream America, and where people shoot each other over atheletic wear or perceived insults or boredom. As much as we are well armed, if you exclude that subculture our murder rates would be similar to yours.

[MichiganWolf]

Gotta stop you right there Mich. That claim of 18 school shootings is bogus. Its source is a gun control advocacy group called Everytown for Gun Safety and includes such things as a suicide that happened in the parking lot of a school, a bullet fired through the window of a school by unknown parties without injuries, etc. etc. The number of bona fide incidents of that claimed 18 is 3.

Sorry, any is too many but the inflation of numbers by the gun grabbers does not serve the discussion.

Eh, that’s just semantics to me. Bullets were released on school property. Either way, school shootings are a massive issue and are uniquely American it seems.

[MichiganWolf]

It is cooked. A commonly cited version of that stat holds that "gun violence" kills 30k per year. They do not tell you that 2/3 of those are suicides, nor do we hear much about "rope violence." Of the 10k bona fide gun homicides that happen yearly here, half are the product of an inner city subculture that has nada to do with mainstream America, and where people shoot each other over atheletic wear or perceived insults or boredom. As much as we are well armed, if you exclude that subculture our murder rates would be similar to yours.

Mass shootings would still be far higher than other nations.

[WBA1955]

The problem with America is how quickly it has risen to be a super power. Less than 150 years ago most of the interior was untamed, pioneer families were at the mercy of Comanches, Mexicans and outlaws. They needed to be armed to defend themselves. It became the right of an American to own a gun.
But these massacres of innocent people are a recent thing, i don't recall many multiple shootings years ago outside of gangsters and bank robbers.
Remember that sniper a few years back, picking off people in shopping malls and supermarkets? Crazy.
Mental health is the main factor.

[Robus]

Semantics would be counting a stray bullet that may have been fired blocks away as a "school shooting" for the purpose of misleading. Firing bullets without much concern for where they land is another tradition of urban subculture. What is shocking is the fact that mainstream #fakenews outlets like CBS, NBC etc. picked up that misleading figure without fact checking it or more likely because they too seek to mislead. The collape of confidence in the integrity of our media is warranted.

Despite--or more likely because of--record gun ownership the rate of gun crime has been falling steadily, outside of that urban subculture. But there is no doubt these high profile massacres have become a meme, amplified by the publicity they receive.

[MichiganWolf]

Semantics would be counting a stray bullet that may have been fired blocks away as a "school shooting" for the purpose of misleading. Firing bullets without much concern for where they land is another tradition of urban subculture. What is shocking is the fact that mainstream #fakenews outlets like CBS, NBC etc. picked up that misleading figure without fact checking it or more likely because they too seek to mislead. The collape of confidence in the integrity of our media is warranted.

Despite--or more likely because of--record gun ownership the rate of gun crime has been falling steadily, outside of that urban subculture. But there is no doubt these high profile massacres have become a meme, amplified by the publicity they receive.

What would your solution be Robus? Despite your nit picking with the numbers, it’s still a big problem and the frequency of these do not seem to be going down. Whether you think it’s guns, mental health, toxic masculinity, contraband or the boogeyman, we still need a solution. Sensible gun reform will cut back on some, not all ImO. But it’s still well worth it.

[WOODLANDSWOLF]

The problem with America is how quickly it has risen to be a super power. Less than 150 years ago most of the interior was untamed, pioneer families were at the mercy of Comanches, Mexicans and outlaws. They needed to be armed to defend themselves. It became the right of an American to own a gun.
But these massacres of innocent people are a recent thing, i don't recall many multiple shootings years ago outside of gangsters and bank robbers.
Remember that sniper a few years back, picking off people in shopping malls and supermarkets? Crazy.
Mental health is the main factor.

Good point mate. People forget that the USA grew very quickly and in a much different way to European nations. As you pointed out in the not so distant past if you lived in the West you had to have a gun to survive.

The main obstacle to the solution to the problem is that it has been politicized with the NRA on one side and the mad lefty no gun libs on the other. Good luck with a solution there.

That sniper by the way there were two of them. In fact I was working in the Baltimore/Washington area at the time and it was scary. especially when I had to get out of the car to fill up at a gas station. Never felt so vulnerable. The best part about that was that the biased media had already got the shooter down as some kind of Republican vigilante but when they caught them, there was one shooter and an accomplice, they were black, homo***ual [not gay], muslim converts. You couldn't make it up!

[WOODLANDSWOLF]

What would your solution be Robus? Despite your nit picking with the numbers, it’s still a big problem and the frequency of these do not seem to be going down. Whether you think it’s guns, mental health, toxic masculinity, contraband or the boogeyman, we still need a solution. Sensible gun reform will cut back on some, not all ImO. But it’s still well worth it.

Mich, with the greatest respect I do not see how pointing out that the offered statistics are grossly and purposely misleading qualifys as "nit picking".

[Robus]

Solution? It's a fallen world mate. There are no solutions, only trade-offs. Considering the fact that gun crimes overall have been declining as rates of gun ownership have risen, I'm comfortably with the guns laws we have currently--lets enforce them. To allow ourselves to be disarmed would be the greatest mistake we ever made as a nation. Once a liberty is taken away, it will never be restored. I predict the Europeans will wish they had their guns back long before we surrender ours. Regarding these specific incidents, it would be helpful it the media would stop exploiting these incidents to create a moral panic, in the process giving these losers the wall-to-wall cover they seek. These are copycat crimes driven by publicity, in my estimation.

[MichiganWolf]

Mich, with the greatest respect I do not see how pointing out that the offered statistics are grossly and purposely misleading qualifys as "nit picking".

I only say nitpicking because despite the misleading stat, it doesn’t take away the fact that school shootings are an issue.