Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 91011
Results 201 to 217 of 217

Thread: ot jeremy corbyn

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Okm then, help me out - what exactly did you mean when you wrote that the Mail is "simply pandering to the tastes of a particular mind set"? What exactly is that mind set with which you are tarnishing the names of our good Mail reading friends? Be specific and cc Shark27 into the reply. Thanks.
    In what way have I tarnished the name of Mail Readers? I said that the Mail panders to a particular mind-set. I made no comment upon whether I considered that to be a desirable or undesirable mind-set. You are reading something into my words that isn’t there, perhaps as a result of your own prejudices.

    At a basic level, the most obvious aspect of a Mail reader is that they have an inclination to read the Mail. From my limited experience of the paper (I sometimes read it when waiting for a haircut as my barber puts it out), I would say that other common traits of readers would be:

    1. Opposition to immigration;
    2. Support for the reintroduction of the death penalty;
    3. A degree of contempt for ‘political correctness gone made’; and
    4. An inability to see how unpleasant Katie Hopkins is.

    Whilst I would disagree with all of those points to one extent or another, none of those traits automatically makes Mail readers bigots, which is what you clearly asserted when you said You think the Mail is only targeting immigration to sell papers to the bigots. I can’t make out whether that isn’t what you meant to say or whether you are taking a leaf out of The Great Leader’s book and are twisting and turning when confronted with something that you now regret saying.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Kerr - Did Chomsky say that "If I were British I would vote for Corbyn"? Yes or no?

    There are videos of the interview online if you don't believe the report I linked to. You could even ask IBS if you like if you need help...
    I have no doubt that he said it. I’m just surprised that he would given his view on politics. One assumes that it was an expression of opinion based upon a lesser of two evils type approach.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    I think I can see your problem. You simply can't imagine any other alternative to the here and now can you? It's either free market neo liberalism or state controlled hell! In this you are frighteningly similar to Great Fire.

    Who said anything about politicians controlling the press? They are the last people that should be involved, for the reasons that you have stated. But that doesn't mean that there aren't other socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives.

    I can see that you are happy with the status quo of a handful of individuals effectively being able to reach and influence the views and votes of over 10 million people, and the illusion of 'democracy' that this represents. Well done, you must be very happy. But I think I'll keep pushing for long term alternatives for a mass press that fairly represents it's society.
    Well what exactly is it that you do want by way of press control? Back in the mists of time in post 138 you said that you would be all for a cross party joint venture and organisation that reflected the interests of all political parties evenly and completely restructure the way that mass media (with readerships of over x amount) can engage with expressing their own political opinions, on behalf of their owners) to the readers. This can be done in many ways, on many levels, is hugely fraught with difficulty and complex issues but is ultimately achievable in a way that achieves an ultimate cross party balance. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the expression ‘cross party’ clearly implies political involvement unless we are using different versions of the English language.

    I see that you have now dropped the word political and it is now ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’ that you are after. What on earth is that supposed to mean? Who is going to appoint the people who operate your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternative’, if it isn’t going to be politicians? And I’ve got the strangest feeling that when you set up your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternative’ it will be quickly infiltrated by politically active individuals who will seek to ensure that their version of the truth is what is printed.

    I’m also curious about how the ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’ would operate. Would newspapers have to run their proposed articles past a committee before they publish? That would make ‘breaking news’ something that happens several days after the event.

    I wonder if the Telegraph would have been allowed to run its MP expenses scandal expose or the Guardian it’s Panama Papers articles if they had to be run by a ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternative’.

    I prefer the current system where people can choose their source of news, with animal picking up his Guardian and gf picking up his Daily Mail. If more people choose the Mail than The Guardian then that’s the way it is and in that way the media reflects the choice that society makes. So, yes, I prefer the status quo, because there isn’t a better alternative. If you want to explain how your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’ would operate (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt and am assuming you don’t mean that people would be made to read The Guardian), I’d be fascinated.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    It's not the threads that irritate you Kerr. It's just the posters that point out the huge flaws in your world-view! x
    Which huge flaws have you pointed out, raging? I think that’s something that’s happened in your dreams alongside your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’.

    I don’t like these threads because they always descend into abuse and cheap point scoring (and yes, I do a bit of the latter sometimes).

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by great_fire View Post
    None of them are inspiring that's true.

    Mogg would be much more so but the press will go after him for his religious views particularly on abortion, which they wouldn't do if he was any other religion, abortion is forbidden in many religions including the establishment's favourite one, Islam.
    I don’t think Rees-Mogg would be widely attractive to the electorate. He’s a bit too Victorian for most people and certainly for me. The ‘Left wing’ press would have a field day with him, because of things that he has said, in much the same way that the ‘Right wing’ press do with The Great Leader. It's just that not as many people would read it as when The Sun has a pop at The Great Leader, which, in simple terms, is what upsets raging.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    I have no doubt that he said it. I’m just surprised that he would given his view on politics. One assumes that it was an expression of opinion based upon a lesser of two evils type approach.
    It's more an acceptance that, as I said earlier, it's one thing to draw up detailed theories of mass media, it's flaws and where we'd like to go from here, and as you quite condescendingly put it having to live "back in the real world", and make whatever decisions we can do now, with what we have, that might move us (very long term) to where we'd like to be.

    Or at least opposing the existing trend that is seeing the concentration of mass media influence falling increasingly into the hands of fewer people with interests not for the benefit of society overall.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    Well what exactly is it that you do want by way of press control? Back in the mists of time in post 138 you said that you would be all for a cross party joint venture and organisation that reflected the interests of all political parties evenly and completely restructure the way that mass media (with readerships of over x amount) can engage with expressing their own political opinions, on behalf of their owners) to the readers. This can be done in many ways, on many levels, is hugely fraught with difficulty and complex issues but is ultimately achievable in a way that achieves an ultimate cross party balance. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the expression ‘cross party’ clearly implies political involvement unless we are using different versions of the English language.

    I see that you have now dropped the word political and it is now ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’ that you are after. What on earth is that supposed to mean? Who is going to appoint the people who operate your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternative’, if it isn’t going to be politicians? And I’ve got the strangest feeling that when you set up your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternative’ it will be quickly infiltrated by politically active individuals who will seek to ensure that their version of the truth is what is printed.

    I’m also curious about how the ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’ would operate. Would newspapers have to run their proposed articles past a committee before they publish? That would make ‘breaking news’ something that happens several days after the event.

    I wonder if the Telegraph would have been allowed to run its MP expenses scandal expose or the Guardian it’s Panama Papers articles if they had to be run by a ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternative’.

    I prefer the current system where people can choose their source of news, with animal picking up his Guardian and gf picking up his Daily Mail. If more people choose the Mail than The Guardian then that’s the way it is and in that way the media reflects the choice that society makes. So, yes, I prefer the status quo, because there isn’t a better alternative. If you want to explain how your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’ would operate (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt and am assuming you don’t mean that people would be made to read The Guardian), I’d be fascinated.
    I think I wrote that post at 7am in the morning before I’d had even half of my cup of coffee, rushing to get the points over before daughter tumbles down the stairs demanding her porridge!

    As I’ve said before I am FAR from being an academic and am not great with the written word, just do my best. And in saying phrases like “reflected the interests of all political parties”, “ultimate cross party balance” and “socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives” what I am clumsily saying is that whatever the solution would be that we move towards it has to reflect all voices in society.

    Couple of questions for you:

    1. Do you think it would be better if we had a free press serve to benefit and enhance the public good (a good whose production has positive effects on society beyond the effects on the specific people who directly consume the good) of the society it exists in? To help reinforce democracy through a range of views being freely and equally available to the consumers?

    2. Are you ultimately happy that a handful of people own the media and use their property as a vehicle to influence both government and the voting public?

    Obviously, my answers are 1) Yes and 2) No. So obviously I’d look for alternative ways of doing things. Wouldn’t anyone if they came to the same conclusions.

    The question is of course what can we do about it? As you have quoted me above, I have pointed out that to explore this path is “hugely fraught with difficulties and complex issues” and your questions highlight these.

    But does that mean that solutions are impossible? That we shouldn’t try when these questions are so important and our illusion of democracy is so flawed.

    I am personally not bright nor eloquent enough to solve these huge problems in my lunch breaks but I think I can identify some directions of travel.

    Maybe we can look at the elements of our own BBC? The idea here is that all of us pay into a national mass media service that is responsible for providing a balanced and fair news coverage and a range of political opinion and is accountable to public scrutiny in terms of it’s balance. It’s not ideal, gets accused of political bias from both sides but ultimately takes it’s responsibility for a fair balanced news and opinion service seriously and does a good job of it. Maybe the way we should travel is in this direction, with all public paying in towards a range of national news publications, of different styles and media types that the paying public can select from but each with a responsibility to report within an agreed framework and an over riding body that ensures that x views expressed over there (say right wing source) are counter balanced by x views expressed over here by a left wing source.

    In the meantime, these news outlets report as normal, in real time just as the BBC does now. Did the BBC investigate on MPs expenses scandal? Does the BBC do undercover reporting and exposes of scurrilous individuals? Of course.

    This linked report has some interesting ideas, some along these lines I mention but with other ideas (yet worth noting that even they recognise the inherent difficulty in going into the further detail of working out such initiatives! It’s a logistical nightmare but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t explore it and move in that direction does it when our current mass media is not fit for purpose (of serving the greater good of society)):

    https://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~wright/Con...n%20August.pdf

    In the meantime, “back in the real world”, of course we’re ages, decades, millennia away from such a possibility. The here and now is more concerned with:

    1. Protecting the BBC from predominantly right wing press attacks (for these owners know the potential dangers in a mass news organisation that actually represents it’s people and presents two or more arguments instead of the one that they want to dominate)

    2. Keep arguing the fact that the current illusion of a democratic free press is not fit for purpose and does not present a true range of perspectives so that people recognise the necessity for an alternative.

    Huge uphill battle, but for me, if the essential structure of something so important is corrupt and broken, it’s just lazy thinking that just dismisses it as the ‘best we can do’.

    ***(You’re right, only just me and you reading this so not much chance of influencing public debate here! So much for the great leveller of social media!)***

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    I don’t think Rees-Mogg would be widely attractive to the electorate. He’s a bit too Victorian for most people and certainly for me. The ‘Left wing’ press would have a field day with him, because of things that he has said, in much the same way that the ‘Right wing’ press do with The Great Leader. It's just that not as many people would read it as when The Sun has a pop at The Great Leader, which, in simple terms, is what upsets raging.
    Blimey, crowbarring me into a discussion with another poster - you are rattled aren't you?!

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    Which huge flaws have you pointed out, raging? I think that’s something that’s happened in your dreams alongside your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’.

    I don’t like these threads because they always descend into abuse and cheap point scoring (and yes, I do a bit of the latter sometimes).
    I haven't abused you Kerr. Note the winking smiley!

    Blo*dy snowflake!

  10. #210
    Liar liar pants on fire Mr Mogg , a Christian indeed .



    https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...corbyn-live-tv

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by animallittle3 View Post
    Liar liar pants on fire Mr Mogg , a Christian indeed .



    https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...corbyn-live-tv
    At least he apologised.

    Corbyn hasn't apologised for supporting the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by great_fire View Post
    At least he apologised.

    Corbyn hasn't apologised for supporting the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah.
    Can you link me to any evidence of Mogg actually apologising Fire? I can't find it...

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Can you link me to any evidence of Mogg actually apologising Fire? I can't find it...
    While you're at it gf, can you post any links that show Corbyn's support of the said organisations, i think you're forgetting you've been proven wrong on many occasions on the same topic.

    Still waiting for the wonderful Kerr to prove any Corbyn links to the ira.....tick tock.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    I don’t think Rees-Mogg would be widely attractive to the electorate. He’s a bit too Victorian for most people and certainly for me. The ‘Left wing’ press would have a field day with him, because of things that he has said, in much the same way that the ‘Right wing’ press do with The Great Leader. It's just that not as many people would read it as when The Sun has a pop at The Great Leader, which, in simple terms, is what upsets raging.
    He's actually popular with people of all ages, younger people feel very protective of him because he's so polite and nice.

    And what's wrong with being old-fashioned?

    Today's politicians are political pygmies compared to politicians of the past.

  15. #215
    Going to the Costa in Corbyn's Britain:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-l...s-of-banknotes

  16. #216
    Corbyn update:

    Even his new allies in the Communist party think he's too extreme!

    https://order-order.com/2018/03/07/c...eme-hamas-ira/


    Corbynistas, ever get the feeling you may be wrong about the fella?

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by great_fire View Post
    Corbyn update:

    Even his new allies in the Communist party think he's too extreme!

    https://order-order.com/2018/03/07/c...eme-hamas-ira/


    Corbynistas, ever get the feeling you may be wrong about the fella?

    The same article you link to (incidentally taking one quote out of context of the rest of the interview!) also kindly links to a page that shows the CPB's true stance on Corbyn and quotes:

    "...the CPB’s Susan Michie said that ‘several comrades’ had left the Communist Party and joined the Labour Party under Corbyn where they can make more of a difference, therefore her party would extend its pact not to stand candidates against Corbyn’s Labour."

    That's very opposed to Corbyn isn't it!

Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 91011

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •