Reply With QuoteI have no doubt that he said it. I’m just surprised that he would given his view on politics. One assumes that it was an expression of opinion based upon a lesser of two evils type approach.Originally Posted by ragingpup
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In what way have I tarnished the name of Mail Readers? I said that the Mail panders to a particular mind-set. I made no comment upon whether I considered that to be a desirable or undesirable mind-set. You are reading something into my words that isn’t there, perhaps as a result of your own prejudices.
At a basic level, the most obvious aspect of a Mail reader is that they have an inclination to read the Mail. From my limited experience of the paper (I sometimes read it when waiting for a haircut as my barber puts it out), I would say that other common traits of readers would be:
1. Opposition to immigration;
2. Support for the reintroduction of the death penalty;
3. A degree of contempt for ‘political correctness gone made’; and
4. An inability to see how unpleasant Katie Hopkins is.
Whilst I would disagree with all of those points to one extent or another, none of those traits automatically makes Mail readers bigots, which is what you clearly asserted when you said You think the Mail is only targeting immigration to sell papers to the bigots. I can’t make out whether that isn’t what you meant to say or whether you are taking a leaf out of The Great Leader’s book and are twisting and turning when confronted with something that you now regret saying.
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I have no doubt that he said it. I’m just surprised that he would given his view on politics. One assumes that it was an expression of opinion based upon a lesser of two evils type approach.
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Well what exactly is it that you do want by way of press control? Back in the mists of time in post 138 you said that you would be all for a cross party joint venture and organisation that reflected the interests of all political parties evenly and completely restructure the way that mass media (with readerships of over x amount) can engage with expressing their own political opinions, on behalf of their owners) to the readers. This can be done in many ways, on many levels, is hugely fraught with difficulty and complex issues but is ultimately achievable in a way that achieves an ultimate cross party balance. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the expression ‘cross party’ clearly implies political involvement unless we are using different versions of the English language.
I see that you have now dropped the word political and it is now ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’ that you are after. What on earth is that supposed to mean? Who is going to appoint the people who operate your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternative’, if it isn’t going to be politicians? And I’ve got the strangest feeling that when you set up your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternative’ it will be quickly infiltrated by politically active individuals who will seek to ensure that their version of the truth is what is printed.
I’m also curious about how the ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’ would operate. Would newspapers have to run their proposed articles past a committee before they publish? That would make ‘breaking news’ something that happens several days after the event.
I wonder if the Telegraph would have been allowed to run its MP expenses scandal expose or the Guardian it’s Panama Papers articles if they had to be run by a ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternative’.
I prefer the current system where people can choose their source of news, with animal picking up his Guardian and gf picking up his Daily Mail. If more people choose the Mail than The Guardian then that’s the way it is and in that way the media reflects the choice that society makes. So, yes, I prefer the status quo, because there isn’t a better alternative. If you want to explain how your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’ would operate (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt and am assuming you don’t mean that people would be made to read The Guardian), I’d be fascinated.
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Which huge flaws have you pointed out, raging? I think that’s something that’s happened in your dreams alongside your ‘socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives’.It's not the threads that irritate you Kerr. It's just the posters that point out the huge flaws in your world-view!x
I don’t like these threads because they always descend into abuse and cheap point scoring (and yes, I do a bit of the latter sometimes).
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I don’t think Rees-Mogg would be widely attractive to the electorate. He’s a bit too Victorian for most people and certainly for me. The ‘Left wing’ press would have a field day with him, because of things that he has said, in much the same way that the ‘Right wing’ press do with The Great Leader. It's just that not as many people would read it as when The Sun has a pop at The Great Leader, which, in simple terms, is what upsets raging.
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It's more an acceptance that, as I said earlier, it's one thing to draw up detailed theories of mass media, it's flaws and where we'd like to go from here, and as you quite condescendingly put it having to live "back in the real world", and make whatever decisions we can do now, with what we have, that might move us (very long term) to where we'd like to be.
Or at least opposing the existing trend that is seeing the concentration of mass media influence falling increasingly into the hands of fewer people with interests not for the benefit of society overall.
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I think I wrote that post at 7am in the morning before I’d had even half of my cup of coffee, rushing to get the points over before daughter tumbles down the stairs demanding her porridge!
As I’ve said before I am FAR from being an academic and am not great with the written word, just do my best. And in saying phrases like “reflected the interests of all political parties”, “ultimate cross party balance” and “socially driven cross cultural, cross society discussed and agreed alternatives” what I am clumsily saying is that whatever the solution would be that we move towards it has to reflect all voices in society.
Couple of questions for you:
1. Do you think it would be better if we had a free press serve to benefit and enhance the public good (a good whose production has positive effects on society beyond the effects on the specific people who directly consume the good) of the society it exists in? To help reinforce democracy through a range of views being freely and equally available to the consumers?
2. Are you ultimately happy that a handful of people own the media and use their property as a vehicle to influence both government and the voting public?
Obviously, my answers are 1) Yes and 2) No. So obviously I’d look for alternative ways of doing things. Wouldn’t anyone if they came to the same conclusions.
The question is of course what can we do about it? As you have quoted me above, I have pointed out that to explore this path is “hugely fraught with difficulties and complex issues” and your questions highlight these.
But does that mean that solutions are impossible? That we shouldn’t try when these questions are so important and our illusion of democracy is so flawed.
I am personally not bright nor eloquent enough to solve these huge problems in my lunch breaks but I think I can identify some directions of travel.
Maybe we can look at the elements of our own BBC? The idea here is that all of us pay into a national mass media service that is responsible for providing a balanced and fair news coverage and a range of political opinion and is accountable to public scrutiny in terms of it’s balance. It’s not ideal, gets accused of political bias from both sides but ultimately takes it’s responsibility for a fair balanced news and opinion service seriously and does a good job of it. Maybe the way we should travel is in this direction, with all public paying in towards a range of national news publications, of different styles and media types that the paying public can select from but each with a responsibility to report within an agreed framework and an over riding body that ensures that x views expressed over there (say right wing source) are counter balanced by x views expressed over here by a left wing source.
In the meantime, these news outlets report as normal, in real time just as the BBC does now. Did the BBC investigate on MPs expenses scandal? Does the BBC do undercover reporting and exposes of scurrilous individuals? Of course.
This linked report has some interesting ideas, some along these lines I mention but with other ideas (yet worth noting that even they recognise the inherent difficulty in going into the further detail of working out such initiatives! It’s a logistical nightmare but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t explore it and move in that direction does it when our current mass media is not fit for purpose (of serving the greater good of society)):
https://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~wright/Con...n%20August.pdf
In the meantime, “back in the real world”, of course we’re ages, decades, millennia away from such a possibility. The here and now is more concerned with:
1. Protecting the BBC from predominantly right wing press attacks (for these owners know the potential dangers in a mass news organisation that actually represents it’s people and presents two or more arguments instead of the one that they want to dominate)
2. Keep arguing the fact that the current illusion of a democratic free press is not fit for purpose and does not present a true range of perspectives so that people recognise the necessity for an alternative.
Huge uphill battle, but for me, if the essential structure of something so important is corrupt and broken, it’s just lazy thinking that just dismisses it as the ‘best we can do’.
***(You’re right, only just me and you reading this so not much chance of influencing public debate here! So much for the great leveller of social media!)***
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Blimey, crowbarring me into a discussion with another poster - you are rattled aren't you?!
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I haven't abused you Kerr. Note the winking smiley!
Blo*dy snowflake!
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Liar liar pants on fire Mr Mogg , a Christian indeed .
https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...corbyn-live-tv
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