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Thread: OT: Jezzer turns his back on the referendum result

  1. #1

    OT: Jezzer turns his back on the referendum result

    ...and I'm loving it!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by sidders View Post
    ...and I'm loving it!
    Well, here's part of what he said in Coventry

    ''There will be some who will tell you that Brexit is a disaster for this country and some who will tell you that Brexit will create a land of milk and honey.

    The truth is more down to earth and its in our hands.

    Brexit is what we make of it together, the priorities and choices we make in the negotiations.

    This Conservative government is damaging our country and their priorities for Brexit risk increasing the damage.''


    Seems like 'Brexit' happening is still the working assumption. Does supporting some kind of Customs Union mean Brexit is absolutely impossible? Turkey is in a customs union with the EU and will probably never be a member.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by sidders View Post
    ...and I'm loving it!

    This Marxist has been against the EU all his political life. But now sees a way of trying to bring the Tories down. Sheer brass faced political posturing with no regard to the majority that voted out.

    Only the uneducated and Momentum members cannot see what a total hypocritical lying chancer this man is.

    Thick voting students..be aware...

    The failing Guardian readers will be happy.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePass View Post
    This Marxist has been against the EU all his political life. But now sees a way of trying to bring the Tories down. Sheer brass faced political posturing with no regard to the majority that voted out.

    Only the uneducated and Momentum members cannot see what a total hypocritical lying chancer this man is.

    Thick voting students..be aware...

    The failing Guardian readers will be happy.
    Haha.

  5. #5
    This could all have been avoided if BREXIT and the negotiations had been undertaken from the start by a CROSS-PARTY commission/group. Afer all it's a National issue not just a Tory party issue. But, as we are seeing on a number of fronts - Fracking particularly - the Tory party dont give a sh!t what the rest of the country think.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsetts_Pie View Post
    This could all have been avoided if BREXIT and the negotiations had been undertaken from the start by a CROSS-PARTY commission/group. Afer all it's a National issue not just a Tory party issue. But, as we are seeing on a number of fronts - Fracking particularly - the Tory party dont give a sh!t what the rest of the country think.
    It could have all been avoided if the Tories hadn't offered a binary referendum on such a complex issue to try and outflank UKIP and calm the divisions in their own party. A ridiculous decision all round which they (and by default - the people of this country) are likely to pay for some years to come.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePass View Post
    This Marxist has been against the EU all his political life. But now sees a way of trying to bring the Tories down. Sheer brass faced political posturing with no regard to the majority that voted out.

    Only the uneducated and Momentum members cannot see what a total hypocritical lying chancer this man is.

    Thick voting students..be aware...

    The failing Guardian readers will be happy.
    hypocritical lying chancer...Sounds like you're describing good old Ben Bradley there!

    If nothing more his apology that he has been forced to make has got the Tories all over Social Media.
    The apology has had more retweets and likes than the whole of the Tory Party for a whole year! At least Ben found a way to create a wave!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePass View Post
    This Marxist has been against the EU all his political life. But now sees a way of trying to bring the Tories down. Sheer brass faced political posturing with no regard to the majority that voted out.

    Only the uneducated and Momentum members cannot see what a total hypocritical lying chancer this man is.

    Thick voting students..be aware...

    The failing Guardian readers will be happy.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2pakvx5lTI

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mapperleypie View Post
    It could have all been avoided if the Tories hadn't offered a binary referendum on such a complex issue to try and outflank UKIP and calm the divisions in their own party. A ridiculous decision all round which they (and by default - the people of this country) are likely to pay for some years to come.
    Exactly, and it shows the folly of trusting a decision of this magnitude to an uninformed electorate. Still nobody knows what 'Brexit' actually means, including those negotiating it! I suspect many leavers voted on the romantic idea that it would mean all those nasty foreigners get sent packing and we rule the world again. I'm sure the likes of Soccerman and seriouspie still adhere to that, but anyone with half a brain must now realise that's not going to happen.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by hissingdwarf View Post
    hypocritical lying chancer...Sounds like you're describing good old Ben Bradley there!

    If nothing more his apology that he has been forced to make has got the Tories all over Social Media.
    The apology has had more retweets and likes than the whole of the Tory Party for a whole year! At least Ben found a way to create a wave!

    At least Ben Bradley is not an undemocratic British hating Marxist who can say nothing wrong to the murdering organisations most normal people view as scum of the earth. Anyway.....Uncle Steptoe is such a nice man

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Pie View Post
    Exactly, and it shows the folly of trusting a decision of this magnitude to an uninformed electorate. Still nobody knows what 'Brexit' actually means, including those negotiating it! I suspect many leavers voted on the romantic idea that it would mean all those nasty foreigners get sent packing and we rule the world again. I'm sure the likes of Soccerman and seriouspie still adhere to that, but anyone with half a brain must now realise that's not going to happen.

    I need to correct you in a minor comment, the ones with half a brain will vote for a Marxist government.

  12. #12
    Sad to see a man held in such esteem for being so principled turn his back on policies that he has espoused for decades at the slightest sniff of power - who says leopards don't change their spots? Also sad for his plans to improve the lives for 'the many' - his policies for the future (whether you agree with them or not - I'm generally in favour btw) are so expensive that they would entail borrowing at a level not allowed under EU rules (John McDonnell has acknowledged this) so the only options would be to turn tail on those policies or tax heavily - very heavily. (Or, I suppose, change the country's name to France who can borrow with impunity).

    I'm not sure if this is simply a power-grab by a guy who I had more faith in, or proof that the Blarites (has anyone seen Starmer and Blair in the same room?) are still holding influence.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Pie View Post
    Exactly, and it shows the folly of trusting a decision of this magnitude to an uninformed electorate. Still nobody knows what 'Brexit' actually means, including those negotiating it! I suspect many leavers voted on the romantic idea that it would mean all those nasty foreigners get sent packing and we rule the world again. I'm sure the likes of Soccerman and seriouspie still adhere to that, but anyone with half a brain must now realise that's not going to happen.
    I can't remember us ever ruling the world ........ just being a smallish island that somehow got off it's little arse, discovered there was a world out there to trade with and went and did it.

    As to 'negotiating' - don't pass comment on something I suspect you've never done little man. I would strongly suggest you've been told what to do all your working life...... more than likely a very good employee but never a decision maker or a business negotiator. Anyway I'm not really bothered .... and I'm sure Joe isn't either, with your insignificant pro Socialist views. Finally by the way ..... did you vote in the referendum? Assuming you did I bet you didn't bleat about being uninformed at that time did you eh?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HaylePie View Post
    Sad to see a man held in such esteem for being so principled turn his back on policies that he has espoused for decades at the slightest sniff of power - who says leopards don't change their spots? Also sad for his plans to improve the lives for 'the many' - his policies for the future (whether you agree with them or not - I'm generally in favour btw) are so expensive that they would entail borrowing at a level not allowed under EU rules (John McDonnell has acknowledged this) so the only options would be to turn tail on those policies or tax heavily - very heavily. (Or, I suppose, change the country's name to France who can borrow with impunity).

    I'm not sure if this is simply a power-grab by a guy who I had more faith in, or proof that the Blarites (has anyone seen Starmer and Blair in the same room?) are still holding influence.
    HalePie ........ I'm a Tory, maybe you vote Labour.... but your words are spot on.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sidders View Post
    ...and I'm loving it!
    So am I ...... the man is now finished .......the last desperate throw of the dice that the electorate won't swallow.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by seriouspie View Post
    Finally by the way ..... did you vote in the referendum? Assuming you did I bet you didn't bleat about being uninformed at that time did you eh?
    Sorry, you lose your bet. I moaned repeatedly on here at the time about the lack of genuine information coming from both sides. The referendum was fought on nothing more than scare stories, false promises and outright lies. As time has passed, I've come to realise why - because no-one from any party has a f@cking clue what Brexit means!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by seriouspie View Post
    So am I ...... the man is now finished .......the last desperate throw of the dice that the electorate won't swallow.
    You don't half spout some baloney. As far as Corbyn is concerned you slagged him off from Day 1 so he certainly won't miss your support.
    Doing what Labour now is will give the Ireland problem a chance of solution. The Tories had no way out of that one.
    As for you, Hayle, surely you're smart enough to know that a Parliamentary democracy means rule by the members not by the diktat of a party's leader.
    Of course, he weighed up the alternatives and saw this was the way to power, splitting the Tories asunder, out-Torying the Tories and keeping able politicians like Starmer and Umunna on board.
    I want Labour in charge of the country, not forming an honourable opposition for the next 4 years. Who knows where we'llbe this time next year? League 1 and a Labour government? That would be sweet, wouldn't it, Suckerman?
    And that effective poster, Elite, is right. Any change in our constitution of this magnitude needed a better voting mechanism - like two-thirds of the people required to say 'Leave'.
    Last edited by sidders; 26-02-2018 at 03:11 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sidders View Post
    You don't half spout some baloney. As far as Corbyn is concerned you slagged him off from Day 1 so he certainly won't miss your support.
    Doing what Labour now is will give the Ireland problem a chance of solution. The Tories had no way out of that one.
    As for you, Hayle, surely you're smart enough to know that a Parliamentary democracy means rule by the members not by the diktat of a party's leader.
    Of course, he weighed up the alternatives and saw this was the way to power, splitting the Tories asunder, out-Torying the Tories and keeping able politicians like Starmer and Umunna on board.
    I want Labour in charge of the country, not forming an honourable opposition for the next 4 years. Who knows where we'llbe this time next year? League 1 and a Labour government? That would be sweet, wouldn't it, Suckerman?
    And that effective poster, Elite, is right. Any change in our constitution of this magnitude needed a better voting mechanism - like two-thirds of the people required to say 'Leave'.
    Which carefully skips over the fact that JC cannot deliver on his promises if he has to follow EU rules - which is exactly what Starmer is advocating.

    As for smart? Not always, but I am smart enough to know that one of the fundamentals of a liberal democracy is a degree of control and oversight of government by the people. If we don't like May, we vote in Jezzer - simple as that. There is no such control with the EU.

    I get your drive for power at any cost but he can do so much if he unshackles himself from the EU.

    (PS - agree with the 2/3 thing but wouldn't have altered my vote)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by HaylePie View Post
    Which carefully skips over the fact that JC cannot deliver on his promises if he has to follow EU rules - which is exactly what Starmer is advocating.

    As for smart? Not always, but I am smart enough to know that one of the fundamentals of a liberal democracy is a degree of control and oversight of government by the people. If we don't like May, we vote in Jezzer - simple as that. There is no such control with the EU.

    I get your drive for power at any cost but he can do so much if he unshackles himself from the EU.

    (PS - agree with the 2/3 thing but wouldn't have altered my vote)
    As things stand, he can't deliver his promises but things will change. For one thing, the EU will be grateful if Labour manages to turn things so that the UK can stay in the Customs Union.
    Let's face it, the main reason the Tories want out of the EU is because it has always had a left of centre stance. Our country is well to the right comparatively as is instanced by the differing attitudes towards the refugee crisis.
    Too many Brits still basking in the glory of WW2, our conquering history, the British Empire and winning the World Cup in 66.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by sidders View Post
    As things stand, he can't deliver his promises but things will change. For one thing, the EU will be grateful if Labour manages to turn things so that the UK can stay in the Customs Union.
    Let's face it, the main reason the Tories want out of the EU is because it has always had a left of centre stance. Our country is well to the right comparatively as is instanced by the differing attitudes towards the refugee crisis.
    Too many Brits still basking in the glory of WW2, our conquering history, the British Empire and winning the World Cup in 66.
    Where to start?

    Things will change - very assured. What? How?

    Europe - 'left of centre' - Where? Austria and Germany have neo-nazis in Parliament (we had a single UKIP guy and they are hardly nutcase right wingers despite what's spouted), the Visegrad countries - left of centre? In fact, the whole left/right thing is nonsense with the EU as a good number of political parties to both Left and Right of the mainstream are EU-sceptic. Look at what is happening in Italy right now. Even in the UK, until today at least, JC was more likely to deliver a hard Brexit than May.

    The idea that the UK is out of kilter with most EU countries on refugees/immigration is laughable. There is a reason so many want to come here - because we are more welcoming and fair-minded, why else would people live in the abject poverty and disgraceful conditions in N France whilst not seeking asylum? The whole 'Brits are racists' defies all logic given the state of politics in Europe and is standard Brit self-loathing stuff. The WW2, 1966 stuff is poor from a guy as bright as you - if people want to make the case FOR the EU then fine - I love a good debate - but why does it have to manifest itself as being so AGAINST the UK all the time.

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