O/T *******...get ready

[JohnLeedsMiller]

******* is literally no different from fiat currency. Currency is primarily a social creation, something as a society we agree to use as a medium of exchange.

Paper money is backed by the government. What does that mean? It means they tell you its useful as money and we all go along with it. As soon as society starts to lose confidence in their government/money, it becomes worthless. History is full of examples of currencies hyperinflating out of existence, go ask the people of Venezuela or Zimbabwe how much it means that the government backs their currency.

With *******, its backed by code and mathematics rather than governments. People don't need to trust that a government won't inflate its value away, we know precicely the number of *******s in existence and always will. Governments change, over the next 100 years who knows what monetary policy will be adopted. We've seen governments struggle with inflation, look at 1970s Britain. With ******* we never need to worry about the impact of the monetary whims of the government of the day, we have something which is apolitical, and truly global.

All currency works as the way you describe *******, it only has value because you believe somebody else will exchange it with you in the future. If you understand the code, you realise ******* will outlast any fiat currency. As long as there is an Internet, there will be *******.

Totally agree. Government control can be seen as stealing from the people. People forget that we have had quantitive easing where the government just prints money and devalues every pound you have in the bank. This means that the price you were promised on that bank note is not the real value anymore. With *******, as you said, it is controlled by code and mathematics and that's the only way that more *******s can be created. The government could effectively tax everyone in the country by 10% to pay off the banks for example just by printing 10% more notes. So the price isn't promised in reality, not when you convert it to something real.

From a regulation point of view, I think this is a bit like trying to regulate the internet, which is virtually impossible. I can go onto a website today and buy *******s behind the protection of a VPN and using TOR (it is difficult to get the cash out of your back to an exchange, but that's the only real difficult bit). The government has no view that I have bought *******s. If the prices goes up and I decide to cash out, I could use a peer-to-peer method to exchange back to cash. This is where someone meets you with cash in their hand and you transfer the coins directly to their wallet. Again the government doesn't know this has happened. This is sort of where the problem lies for governments, they can't tax any profits you make unless you are honest and declare it.

[animallittle3]

Totally agree. Government control can be seen as stealing from the people. People forget that we have had quantitive easing where the government just prints money and devalues every pound you have in the bank. This means that the price you were promised on that bank note is not the real value anymore. With *******, as you said, it is controlled by code and mathematics and that's the only way that more *******s can be created. The government could effectively tax everyone in the country by 10% to pay off the banks for example just by printing 10% more notes. So the price isn't promised in reality, not when you convert it to something real.

From a regulation point of view, I think this is a bit like trying to regulate the internet, which is virtually impossible. I can go onto a website today and buy *******s behind the protection of a VPN and using TOR (it is difficult to get the cash out of your back to an exchange, but that's the only real difficult bit). The government has no view that I have bought *******s. If the prices goes up and I decide to cash out, I could use a peer-to-peer method to exchange back to cash. This is where someone meets you with cash in their hand and you transfer the coins directly to their wallet. Again the government doesn't know this has happened. This is sort of where the problem lies for governments, they can't tax any profits you make unless you are honest and declare it.

Very interesting and informative post indeed .

[John2]

Hope you are enjoying the piste...where abouts are you?

John you previously spent an age telling us how different it was to standard currency, also Im sure you said it couldnt be regulated as well (happy to be proven wrong on this but someone did)

Just got off the mountain, very snowy conditions today in the Haute-Savoie region of France where I'll be spending the rest of the season following a stint in Austria.

You're right, I've not made myself very clear. In the context of what gives it value, ******* as a currency is no different from anything else... at its fundemental level any currency only has value if people agree it does. The properties it has, the cryptographic, decentralised, global and digital nature of ******* is radically different to anything the world has ever seen before, and massively superior. Think like the Internet is superiour to the printing press.

The banks are facing a Kodak moment. Kodak, despite one of their employees inventing the first digital camera, decided to focus on analogue technology. They got left behind.

The banks could reject *******, but new types of banks and services will take their place.

******* is a truly global phonomenon, government clampdowns are the biggest risk to its growth in the short term, but unless there is a coordinated effort amongst all governments, those that attempt it will just find themselves left behind and playing catchup having delayed the inevitable.

In regards to the question of whether ******* is trying to avoid regulation, ******* has no political agenda. It is a series of rules in computerised code that were created almost 10 years ago. Nobody can change those rules, they have no awareness of politics. It can be regulated by governments as can anything else, such as the Internet, it just cannot be controlled by them - it is truly for the people.

I'm not in the camp that thinks government taxation is theft, much the opposite, but I do think the use of inflation to pay for government services is a deceptive way of taxing the masses and rather than asking the wealthy for their fair share, used by various governments to varying degrees.

If people thought inflation the same way they do interest rates they would realise just how bad inflation is.

Having an interest rate of 3% when inflation is at 3% is the equilivent of gaining 0%.

Having an interest rate of 0% when inflation is at 3% is the equilivent of -3% - this is roughly what most of us are currently experiencing!

[frogmiller]

This guy knows how to rip people off!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsaU4-AUW2Y

[Pacaman]

Just got off the mountain, very snowy conditions today in the Haute-Savoie region of France where I'll be spending the rest of the season following a stint in Austria.

You're right, I've not made myself very clear. In the context of what gives it value, ******* as a currency is no different from anything else... at its fundemental level any currency only has value if people agree it does. The properties it has, the cryptographic, decentralised, global and digital nature of ******* is radically different to anything the world has ever seen before, and massively superior. Think like the Internet is superiour to the printing press.

The banks are facing a Kodak moment. Kodak, despite one of their employees inventing the first digital camera, decided to focus on analogue technology. They got left behind.

The banks could reject *******, but new types of banks and services will take their place.

******* is a truly global phonomenon, government clampdowns are the biggest risk to its growth in the short term, but unless there is a coordinated effort amongst all governments, those that attempt it will just find themselves left behind and playing catchup having delayed the inevitable.

In regards to the question of whether ******* is trying to avoid regulation, ******* has no political agenda. It is a series of rules in computerised code that were created almost 10 years ago. Nobody can change those rules, they have no awareness of politics. It can be regulated by governments as can anything else, such as the Internet, it just cannot be controlled by them - it is truly for the people.

I'm not in the camp that thinks government taxation is theft, much the opposite, but I do think the use of inflation to pay for government services is a deceptive way of taxing the masses and rather than asking the wealthy for their fair share, used by various governments to varying degrees.

If people thought inflation the same way they do interest rates they would realise just how bad inflation is.

Having an interest rate of 3% when inflation is at 3% is the equilivent of gaining 0%.

Having an interest rate of 0% when inflation is at 3% is the equilivent of -3% - this is roughly what most of us are currently experiencing!

John, I have invested in Ethereum, Ripple, Dash, Ada, Neo and Ten - the last three in an extremely small way. Anything bad about the first three I should consider (won't hold you to your opinion)? I'm in for the long haul.

Done as much research as a layman in this stuff can do following our previous exchanges but no matter how hard I try, I do not really understand crypotocurrencies. I use Exodus as my wallet which I'm happy with and lucky enough to have invested at a time before the correction after Christmas so showing a profit although not significant any more. Whilst my bag is stocks and shares I'm happy to write of a sum of money just to be in the game.

[sota]

Yet to meet anyone that buys at the bottom or sells at the top. Only in films does that happen.

ha ha what a load of Gijsbert Bos

[John2]

John, I have invested in Ethereum, Ripple, Dash, Ada, Neo and Ten - the last three in an extremely small way. Anything bad about the first three I should consider (won't hold you to your opinion)? I'm in for the long haul.

Done as much research as a layman in this stuff can do following our previous exchanges but no matter how hard I try, I do not really understand crypotocurrencies. I use Exodus as my wallet which I'm happy with and lucky enough to have invested at a time before the correction after Christmas so showing a profit although not significant any more. Whilst my bag is stocks and shares I'm happy to write of a sum of money just to be in the game.

I personally see no long term value in any of the altcoins. They are purely created to piggyback on the hype surrounding *******, and their primary purpose is speculation. Lots of other people buy them "just in case they beat *******", however from all the factors that just isn't realistic.

They often promise "better" features, but there is no such thing as a free lunch and every one I have read about makes huge compromises on scalability, security or decentralisation. Any genuinely innovative idea would be implemented into *******.

That said, since they were created for speculation, there are opportunities to speculate. I have invested in a few of those cryptocurrencies. I don't have the time or desire to study the markets, but I do have friends who are very succesful full time cryptocurrency traders and so I'm in the fortunate position where I simply take their tips, and in exchange I consult on the technical aspect of the technologies. My big win was one that went up 350% in two weeks. However for every big winner you have to accept you'll have many losers. Everyone thinks they're a trading genious in a bull market.

Ripple is just awful, it's not decentralised, it was hugely premined, it just shocks me that so many people got interested in it. That said, I bought some speculatively, because one thing Trump and Brexit has taught me is to never underestimate the ability of a large group of people to get things wrong.

The cryptocurrency market goes in cycles, there was a huge swing towards altcoins, there will be a huge swing back to *******. Trying to time it is gambling. I let my friends tip me on it, but accept its risky. I believe none of them have a long term value and ******* is the safest long term investment, the indexed fund of cryptocurrency.

I also am not an advisor and would encourage doing your own research before making any decisions. The real challenge is there are so many people who don't have a clue what they're talking about who act like they do, it's a massive wild west.

[Pacaman]

I personally see no long term value in any of the altcoins. They are purely created to piggyback on the hype surrounding *******, and their primary purpose is speculation. Lots of other people buy them "just in case they beat *******", however from all the factors that just isn't realistic.

They often promise "better" features, but there is no such thing as a free lunch and every one I have read about makes huge compromises on scalability, security or decentralisation. Any genuinely innovative idea would be implemented into *******.

That said, since they were created for speculation, there are opportunities to speculate. I have invested in a few of those cryptocurrencies. I don't have the time or desire to study the markets, but I do have friends who are very succesful full time cryptocurrency traders and so I'm in the fortunate position where I simply take their tips, and in exchange I consult on the technical aspect of the technologies. My big win was one that went up 350% in two weeks. However for every big winner you have to accept you'll have many losers. Everyone thinks they're a trading genious in a bull market.

Ripple is just awful, it's not decentralised, it was hugely premined, it just shocks me that so many people got interested in it. That said, I bought some speculatively, because one thing Trump and Brexit has taught me is to never underestimate the ability of a large group of people to get things wrong.

The cryptocurrency market goes in cycles, there was a huge swing towards altcoins, there will be a huge swing back to *******. Trying to time it is gambling. I let my friends tip me on it, but accept its risky. I believe none of them have a long term value and ******* is the safest long term investment, the indexed fund of cryptocurrency.

I also am not an advisor and would encourage doing your own research before making any decisions. The real challenge is there are so many people who don't have a clue what they're talking about who act like they do, it's a massive wild west.

Thanks John

[animallittle3]

I personally see no long term value in any of the altcoins. They are purely created to piggyback on the hype surrounding *******, and their primary purpose is speculation. Lots of other people buy them "just in case they beat *******", however from all the factors that just isn't realistic.

They often promise "better" features, but there is no such thing as a free lunch and every one I have read about makes huge compromises on scalability, security or decentralisation. Any genuinely innovative idea would be implemented into *******.

That said, since they were created for speculation, there are opportunities to speculate. I have invested in a few of those cryptocurrencies. I don't have the time or desire to study the markets, but I do have friends who are very succesful full time cryptocurrency traders and so I'm in the fortunate position where I simply take their tips, and in exchange I consult on the technical aspect of the technologies. My big win was one that went up 350% in two weeks. However for every big winner you have to accept you'll have many losers. Everyone thinks they're a trading genious in a bull market.

Ripple is just awful, it's not decentralised, it was hugely premined, it just shocks me that so many people got interested in it. That said, I bought some speculatively, because one thing Trump and Brexit has taught me is to never underestimate the ability of a large group of people to get things wrong.

The cryptocurrency market goes in cycles, there was a huge swing towards altcoins, there will be a huge swing back to *******. Trying to time it is gambling. I let my friends tip me on it, but accept its risky. I believe none of them have a long term value and ******* is the safest long term investment, the indexed fund of cryptocurrency.

I also am not an advisor and would encourage doing your own research before making any decisions. The real challenge is there are so many people who don't have a clue what they're talking about who act like they do, it's a massive wild west.

Who are the real winners here John ? , there's always a group within these products that collect risk free .

Somewhere within this product persons are making money on your or my speculation skills with no risk to themselves .

I'm interested to know who they are and their backgrounds John .

Finance , largely unregulated and quick buck and loss is sending my alarm off mate .

[kempo]

******* is quite different to other currencies in that it has no intrinsic value.

It's only worth what someone will pay for it.

It's interesting in that it only exists in cyberspace and we cannot go into Tesco with a pocketful of *******s.

I think I read that Coinbase a ******* exchange is opening 50000 new accounts each day!!

There is still a stampede to get into buying it and there is lots and lots of hype behind it together with the staggering rise in price.

The number of coins available has been deliberately restricted so if a demand can be stimulated then a price rise is a certainty because of the ceiling in ******* numbers.

Has a bubble been created..Well we can guess yes but we can only recognise a bubble retrospectively ie when it has burst.

Has it got the makings of a bubble...new exciting technology( tick) hyped to the extreme ( tick) Shoe shine boys and football message board users buying and tipping it ( tick) very important is restricted availability creating great demand ( tick)

So,what's the problem?..If its a bubble will it burst and why?

About a thousand very rich people own 40 per cent of all the *******s and about 2000 own the majority of coins.

Many of these very rich people are known to each other so this allows manipulation of the market and this may explain some of the wide and wild swings.

The rich few can create pump and dumps by acting in unison and carrying out large buys which pushes up the price and causes a stampede of sheep like followers who chase the price.....The rich few the dump their new coins at a massive profit and the price crashes down leaving the ordinary punter high,dry and skint and the cycle can start again.