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Thread: OT Italian election

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by tarquinbeech View Post
    I forgot to address your argument about Five Star and the EU......straight from Wiki....About the politics of the European Union and the Euro, the Five Star movement has often been highly critical, but like on other issues, its position is ambiguous. On 12 June 2014, the M5S having been rejected by both the Greens/EFA,[119] and the ALDE[120] European Parliament groups, offered its activists a limited-choice online referendum to choose a group for the party, in which 78% of participating activists voted for the Eurosceptic Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy ......so they are viewed as Eurosceptic?

    Again from Wiki.....In December 2017, the M5S electoral leader, Luigi Di Maio stated that he supported a referendum for Italy to leave the Eurozone and would vote to leave.[126] However, in January 2018 he rejected his previous position,[127] refusing the idea of a referendum on the Euro, which was previously strongly supported by the movement.[128] In February 2018, Di Maio also stated that "European Union is the Five Star Movement's home".[129].....LEAVE is mentioned a few times.

    I also checked on their alliance with Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy.....it seems it is led by Sir Nigel Farage?....straight from Wiki again.....n 2017, it was one of the seven political groups of the parliament. This right wing group is opposed to European integration[6]. 24 out of its 47 MEPs were from the United Kingdom. In 2017, the group had two co-presidents: UKIP's Nigel Farage, and David Borrelli from the Five Star Movement[.......On 12 June 2014, the Five Star Movement (M5S) of Italy, having been rejected by the Greens/EFA[9] and Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe[10] groups, offered its activists a limited-choice online referendum to choose a European Parliament group for the party, in which 78% of participating activists voted for the EFD.[11][12]

    On 16 June 2014, Dutch MEP Bas Belder of the Reformed Political Party (SGP) moved from the EFD to the ECR group.[13]

    The EFD group was reformed on 18 June 2014 with MEPs from existing member parties: the UK Independence Party (United Kingdom) and the Order and Justice (Lithuania), in addition to new affiliates: the Five Star Movement, the Sweden Democrats (Sweden), the Party of Free Citizens (Czech Republic), the Latvian Farmers Union (Latvia) and a French independent MEP, formerly of the National Front.[14][15]

    On 24 June 2014, the EFD group name was revised to Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (EFDD), and David Borrelli of the Five Star Movement was chosen as the incoming group's new co-president.[16][17

    So correct me if I am wrong, Driller.....but according to this 78% of Five Star voters....voted to join an EU Party led by Nigel Farage?
    No, 78% of members, not voters. Plus you will find that when Beppe Grillo recommends the members vote in a certain way, as he did in this case, he usually wins 80/20.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    Don't think you can read Putin anything into Putin's impending victory other than the fact that if you control the media and put your opponents in prison you win elections.

    Paradise papers was a story broken by a left wing newspaper you profess to hate.

    A lot of M5S policies are more left wing than the the centre left parties (free money for everyone for example)
    .......why does it matter who broke the Panama story?.....the point about Putin was the continuing rise of a country on the Right, strangely enough who also support 5 Star, a Party with "Eff you" as the slogan....who want to bin the Euro, relocate 600,000 refugees and deport illegals and end the Libyan "taxi service".....good on them, though I notice that Grillo is now distancing himself from the new boy now he has retracted his December call for ItalExit.

    I smell some Bullchit here.....they rise to power, name the son of a Mussolini~supporting Nazi as their leader who obviously has to resign as a Napoli waiter first, then offer free money to everyone (sounds like a Labour gambit) whilst offering the EU the olive branch of not upsetting the apple~cart unless they get some reforms......meanwhile they get your buddy Federico to write a Guardian piece on being "maligned by the press". The guy is not a 5 Star spokesman, but a Sorbonne and Harvard graduate who peddles his intellectual thoughts around the Middle~East and South America whilst collecting dosh from oil and gas companies whom he advises them on about how to protect their assets......his CV makes no mention of 5 Star affiliation so I may have found the wrong guy, in which case ....someone has hijacked my MAD account.

    I have today read, pieces in the New Statesman, Economist, NBC, CNN, Washington Post, Politico and even the Shropshire something~or~other......and every one of them, to varying degrees, assert the belief that the Italian result spells problems for the EU.....not insurmountable problems I grant you, a bit of free dosh goes a long way as long as they do not rock the boat, or lifeboat, too much....in Mexico, we use an old~fashioned term....bribery, and it works ......as the Italians are well aware.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    No, 78% of members, not voters. Plus you will find that when Beppe Grillo recommends the members vote in a certain way, as he did in this case, he usually wins 80/20.
    Glad we agree, Grillo tells his "members" to vote to align with UKIP...78% agree...but now you appear to be saying that they are NOT really EuroSceptic according to some Sorbonne intellectual?

    I am slightly confused.....even their new leader, obviously Grillo cannot take power because of his numerous convictions including manslaughter, was calling for a Leave vote 3 months ago and offering a referendum......yes, yes, I am aware that he is now attempting to climb up onto the fence as long as the Italians get some concessions from the EU Mafia...but they did not help Cameron when he tried it....will they back down this time?...mmmmm, very possibly....after all, they have only just finished fire~fighting against AFD, do they really want to risk another blaze?

    The irony of watching this whole crumbling edifice, is that if they had just stuck to being a Common Market.....none of this would be happening....we would still have had political surprises, but nobody would have dreamt of leaving a common trading bloc.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by tarquinbeech View Post
    Glad we agree, Grillo tells his "members" to vote to align with UKIP...78% agree...but now you appear to be saying that they are NOT really EuroSceptic according to some Sorbonne intellectual?

    I am slightly confused.....even their new leader, obviously Grillo cannot take power because of his numerous convictions including manslaughter, was calling for a Leave vote 3 months ago and offering a referendum......yes, yes, I am aware that he is now attempting to climb up onto the fence as long as the Italians get some concessions from the EU Mafia...but they did not help Cameron when he tried it....will they back down this time?...mmmmm, very possibly....after all, they have only just finished fire~fighting against AFD, do they really want to risk another blaze?

    The irony of watching this whole crumbling edifice, is that if they had just stuck to being a Common Market.....none of this would be happening....we would still have had political surprises, but nobody would have dreamt of leaving a common trading bloc.
    No we don't agree. First of all you said 80% of M5S voters chose to join Farage's Eurosceptic group, that is not true, it was 80% of members of the movement, not 80% of people who vote for them.

    I'm saying that whenever Grillo recommends an outcome of the vote most of the members follow his recommendation, usually by a margin of 80/20. A good example of this is that when Grillo subsequently recommended leaving Farage's group to join the liberal group (about a year ago I think) this was also approved by 80/20.

    Feel free to ask for further clarification if this is not clear.

    The Sorbonne intellectual is a M5S candidate, why would you know more than him about the direction his movement wants to take? Bizarre.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    No we don't agree. First of all you said 80% of M5S voters chose to join Farage's Eurosceptic group, that is not true, it was 80% of members of the movement, not 80% of people who vote for them.

    I'm saying that whenever Grillo recommends an outcome of the vote most of the members follow his recommendation, usually by a margin of 80/20. A good example of this is that when Grillo subsequently recommended leaving Farage's group to join the liberal group (about a year ago I think) this was also approved by 80/20.

    Feel free to ask for further clarification if this is not clear.

    The Sorbonne intellectual is a M5S candidate, why would you know more than him about the direction his movement wants to take? Bizarre.


    My vote goes to that George Forman Grill..o..its good for you.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by tarquinbeech View Post
    .......why does it matter who broke the Panama story?.....the point about Putin was the continuing rise of a country on the Right, strangely enough who also support 5 Star, a Party with "Eff you" as the slogan....who want to bin the Euro, relocate 600,000 refugees and deport illegals and end the Libyan "taxi service".....good on them, though I notice that Grillo is now distancing himself from the new boy now he has retracted his December call for ItalExit.

    I smell some Bullchit here.....they rise to power, name the son of a Mussolini~supporting Nazi as their leader who obviously has to resign as a Napoli waiter first, then offer free money to everyone (sounds like a Labour gambit) whilst offering the EU the olive branch of not upsetting the apple~cart unless they get some reforms......meanwhile they get your buddy Federico to write a Guardian piece on being "maligned by the press". The guy is not a 5 Star spokesman, but a Sorbonne and Harvard graduate who peddles his intellectual thoughts around the Middle~East and South America whilst collecting dosh from oil and gas companies whom he advises them on about how to protect their assets......his CV makes no mention of 5 Star affiliation so I may have found the wrong guy, in which case ....someone has hijacked my MAD account.

    I have today read, pieces in the New Statesman, Economist, NBC, CNN, Washington Post, Politico and even the Shropshire something~or~other......and every one of them, to varying degrees, assert the belief that the Italian result spells problems for the EU.....not insurmountable problems I grant you, a bit of free dosh goes a long way as long as they do not rock the boat, or lifeboat, too much....in Mexico, we use an old~fashioned term....bribery, and it works ......as the Italians are well aware.
    The Panama Papers story is I think one the most important issues facing us today, so I thought you might want to recognise that the paper you despise did good work exposing it.

    Obviously Breitbart and so on could've investigated it but didn't, perhaps because the people who own them want to start a war between different classes of poor people to protect their substantial wealth? Anyway, I digress.

    The Putin / M5S link is interesting. M5S started out with very strong liberal principles and was very critical of Putin in its early days, then Beppe Grillo went to meet Putin in Russia and when he came back he adopted a totally different tone towards Russia: much friendlier and much more hostile towards the EU. Draw your own conclusions.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    The Panama Papers story is I think one the most important issues facing us today, so I thought you might want to recognise that the paper you despise did good work exposing it.

    Obviously Breitbart and so on could've investigated it but didn't, perhaps because the people who own them want to start a war between different classes of poor people to protect their substantial wealth? Anyway, I digress.

    The Putin / M5S link is interesting. M5S started out with very strong liberal principles and was very critical of Putin in its early days, then Beppe Grillo went to meet Putin in Russia and when he came back he adopted a totally different tone towards Russia: much friendlier and much more hostile towards the EU. Draw your own conclusions.


    I have drawn mine...bored xxxxless.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePass View Post
    I have drawn mine...bored xxxxless.
    Thatís a shame, I was looking forward to your contribution to the debate.

    Iíll have to ask the cat instead.

  9. #69

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatPie View Post
    Thatís a shame, I was looking forward to your contribution to the debate.

    Iíll have to ask the cat instead.


    Purrrrrr ..by the way your mates nickname was COB, you know, the Marxist who hates Britain.. always happy to help the debate of who loves Britain and the others.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    No we don't agree. First of all you said 80% of M5S voters chose to join Farage's Eurosceptic group, that is not true, it was 80% of members of the movement, not 80% of people who vote for them.

    I'm saying that whenever Grillo recommends an outcome of the vote most of the members follow his recommendation, usually by a margin of 80/20. A good example of this is that when Grillo subsequently recommended leaving Farage's group to join the liberal group (about a year ago I think) this was also approved by 80/20.

    Feel free to ask for further clarification if this is not clear.

    The Sorbonne intellectual is a M5S candidate, why would you know more than him about the direction his movement wants to take? Bizarre.
    You appear to be getting a bit tetchy.....is that because every single media outlet out there, apart from the Guardian after commissioning a piece from from a media whore, have decided 5 Star spells trouble for the EU Mafia?

    Further clarification not needed thanks....I have the incredible ability of reading the various press versions of the latest EU debacle.

    I will enjoy watching the latest saga unfold....I have already formed my idea of the outcome.....so have you obviously.....we will see......until then, Pax Romanis Mr Driller

    ps In rather a good mood, the new swimming pool is coming along nicely, Walmart have a special on pool umbrellas, the kind that you crank open and closed, plus I picked up 60 odd litres of Indio Ale on special offer as well, for the weekend, along with a 4 litre carafe of rather nice white wine that I am currently quaffing .......nothing can spoil my weekend in Tarkersville....I love everyone...in a non~gay kinda way obviously.
    Last edited by tarquinbeech; 09-03-2018 at 12:14 AM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarquinbeech View Post
    You appear to be getting a bit tetchy.....is that because every single media outlet out there, apart from the Guardian after commissioning a piece from from a media whore, have decided 5 Star spells trouble for the EU Mafia?

    Further clarification not needed thanks....I have the incredible ability of reading the various press versions of the latest EU debacle.

    I will enjoy watching the latest saga unfold....I have already formed my idea of the outcome.....so have you obviously.....we will see......until then, Pax Romanis Mr Driller

    ps In rather a good mood, the new swimming pool is coming along nicely, Walmart have a special on pool umbrellas, the kind that you crank open and closed, plus I picked up 60 odd litres of Indio Ale on special offer as well, for the weekend, along with a 4 litre carafe of rather nice white wine that I am currently quaffing .......nothing can spoil my weekend in Tarkersville....I love everyone...in a non~gay kinda way obviously.
    You forget the Guardian is the bible and always tells the truth

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by i961pie View Post
    You forget the Guardian is the bible and always tells the truth
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOgV6Fvc8wc


    Yep

  13. #73
    Wow full marks to Tricky and i961pie for the Pavlovian response to the word 'Guardian'.

    Low marks to you both for being able to read and comprehend a thread on a message board, unless you wanted to take my side against Tarquin, which I doubt.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by tarquinbeech View Post
    You appear to be getting a bit tetchy.....is that because every single media outlet out there, apart from the Guardian after commissioning a piece from from a media whore, have decided 5 Star spells trouble for the EU Mafia?

    Further clarification not needed thanks....I have the incredible ability of reading the various press versions of the latest EU debacle.

    I will enjoy watching the latest saga unfold....I have already formed my idea of the outcome.....so have you obviously.....we will see......until then, Pax Romanis Mr Driller

    ps In rather a good mood, the new swimming pool is coming along nicely, Walmart have a special on pool umbrellas, the kind that you crank open and closed, plus I picked up 60 odd litres of Indio Ale on special offer as well, for the weekend, along with a 4 litre carafe of rather nice white wine that I am currently quaffing .......nothing can spoil my weekend in Tarkersville....I love everyone...in a non~gay kinda way obviously.
    I don't pay much attention to the English language media because I probably have a better understanding of Italian politics than they do. M5S spells trouble for the EU in a way because there are certain issues they want to change EU policy on (fiscal compact, immigration - although the outgoing Italian government has already changed that to a large extent, the problem now is deporting the ones who haven't been given refugee status - and some aspects of trade) but they want to resolve these problems from the inside rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Quite a sensible strategy in my view.

    As you can see they are populists and they change their mind to suit what they think people will vote for (their policy on vaccines is a perfect example ) but at the moment the situation is as described above.

    I was getting tetchy because you didn't seem to be able to understand what I was explaining to you. You still haven't accepted it explicitly, but you have stopped taking potshots based on patchy knowledge of the question in hand garnered from Wikipedia and declared peace, which I suspect is as close as we'll get.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    Wow full marks to Tricky and i961pie for the Pavlovian response to the word 'Guardian'.

    Low marks to you both for being able to read and comprehend a thread on a message board, unless you wanted to take my side against Tarquin, which I doubt.
    You accuse 61 and myself of being conditioned? lmfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao

    You do not get the irony of that. Listen to the video again, you just proved it.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds View Post
    You accuse 61 and myself of being conditioned? lmfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao

    You do not get the irony of that. Listen to the video again, you just proved it.
    I can't listen again, I didn't listen to it the first time, I always ignore your links because I think you are extremely lazy and don't take the time to read threads and articulate your point of view, you just dump a load of links and copy and paste text.

    Another reason I never click on them is that after your white supremacism faux pas I don't want to end up on an MI5 watch list.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds View Post
    You accuse 61 and myself of being conditioned? lmfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao

    You do not get the irony of that. Listen to the video again, you just proved it.
    Hahahaha.....Pat Condell having a rant

    Guardian readers are feckless, patronising, smug pinheads with narrow views ......and see all non~Guardian readers as right~wing facists...mmmmm...they are usually Liberal and educated, bleeding~hearts who latch onto the latest "cause" with sheep~like intensity but actually cause 10 times the damage by stifling open discussion.....mmmm

    Middle~aged or aging laptop warriors wearing a Che Guevara t~shirt, occupying a cosy bubble of like~minded lefties, living happily with a decent pension pot and sending their kids to exclusive schools whilst pontificating about the poor, impoverished, masses who are sooo misunderstood and misrepresented......never ever simply just more stupid than the rest of us...of course their golden rule is not to call them simply stupid because that will damage their self~esteem.......ouch.

    They view anyone who attacks Islam as a racist bigot...mmmm....plus several other comments that I cannot repeat for fear of another ban!!

    That was just his opening remarks.....the finale of "do not read the Guardian because it will leave a smear of filth upon your soul" was a little OTT.....I read it daily, so that I can try to understand the "other" side....obviously I shower afterwards and scrub my soul so it is squeaky clean.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatPie View Post
    qed
    I knew a bloke who thought he knew it all, wouldn't have anything of what anyone else had to say. After listening to his crap he would always end with qed . He was a complete k**b as well.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by navypie View Post
    I knew a bloke who thought he knew it all, wouldn't have anything of what anyone else had to say. After listening to his crap he would always end with qed . He was a complete k**b as well.
    You donít have to put asterisks in knob. And itís actually spelt, in the context you mean it, nob. You donít have to put asterisks in that either.

    Iíve always been told that the navy is for lads who are too fick to join the RAF, but you certainly prove me wrong on that score Sailor Boy.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by navypie View Post
    I knew a bloke who thought he knew it all, wouldn't have anything of what anyone else had to say. After listening to his crap he would always end with qed . He was a complete k**b as well.
    Bit harsh on Trickytreesreds.

    No actually I take that back, it's pretty accurate.

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