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Thread: OT: Guaranteeing Public safety - who do you think your kidding?

  1. #1

    OT: Guaranteeing Public safety - who do you think your kidding?

    “Can you guarantee the public their safety?” he probed.

    Amber confidently insisted: “Of course I can guarantee the public their safety.

    “We have been ready for a long time for the sort of incidents we have been seeing.
    See eg https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv...ng-Britain-ITV

    So how come these incidents happen? How come nobody gets hurt? How come people can wandering around with nerve agent or polonium are apprehended before doing any damage?

    These nonsensical "reassuring" statements are spewed out everytime some major incidence occurs, "public safety was never threatened" when some massive explosion occurs or a nuclear power station goes wrong.

    Things go wrong, nasty people are around, nature has brutal forces. At least Canute had the wisdom to show he was in fact powerless over many things.

  2. #2
    I tend to agree. I'm sure the received wisdom is that those in authority must project a sense of calm and control, but in this era of 24 hour news I think people are much smarter to the realities of the world than they were in the past and they realise we have limited capacity to prevent such acts.

    I think people are actually much less 'spooked' by these things than they would have been 30 or 40 years ago, because we see so much bad stuff it has almost become the norm. Let's be honest, a lot of people watch the news these days like a developing soap opera, and the more dramatic the storyline, the more they watch.

  3. #3
    How come nobody gets hurt?? I thought someone had.

    "People wandering about with nerve agent..." Do you imagine there are people actually wandering aimlessly about, whistling to themselves, carrying this stuff, swinging it in a Tesco bag? THAT is wandering about, but I would imagine them damn Russkies are a bit more secretive than that.

    If Ivan (or Vlad) wanted to poison YOU, no preventative measures could stop him. Perhaps it was an unwise thing for Amber Rudd to say she could guarantee the public their safety but it's no dafter than Ben Shepherd actually asking a loaded question like that. What else could she say? No I can't, take your chances.

  4. #4
    ... Ben the Shep ... just another no-mark media parasite trying to make a name for himself. He probably didn't think of the question; guess the Producer whispered that one to him.

  5. #5
    The attempted murder of a British spy on British soil by a foreign country should be a wake-up call to this government as to the threat posed by Russia. There is little doubt that they see the West as the enemy and will do all they can (via social media and media accounts in general) to pervert democracy by distributing disinformation in other countries for their own ends.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mapperleypie View Post
    The attempted murder of a British spy on British soil by a foreign country should be a wake-up call to this government as to the threat posed by Russia. There is little doubt that they see the West as the enemy and will do all they can (via social media and media accounts in general) to pervert democracy by distributing disinformation in other countries for their own ends.
    Indeed. I find it very strange that people on here feel strongly about the loss of sovereignty involved in being in the EU, while Putin ticks people off his kill list on British soil, poisons a copper, carries out cyber attacks on our infrastructure, and nobody seems too bothered.

  7. #7
    ... Snobhead 3 - you more dumb than you think ... of course some 'people' are 'bothered' and nothing to do with EU/sovereignty. It's an aspect of successive British governments that we are involved in espionage probably to a much greater extent than we all realise. Indeed, we may be better off not knowing the extent of our own involvement. So perhaps we should view the numbers of ordinarily undesirables resident in the UK as a trade off for what we may be gaining in intelligence about which we will never know. It's all very messy and not something that will be resolved on 'MAD'.

  8. #8

    Security

    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    Indeed. I find it very strange that people on here feel strongly about the loss of sovereignty involved in being in the EU, while Putin ticks people off his kill list on British soil, poisons a copper, carries out cyber attacks on our infrastructure, and nobody seems too bothered.
    It occured to me that your note suggested that the people who felt strongly about Brexit were the same ones who were worried about the recent attempted murders. I don't think they are.

    Unfortunately, when we had the previous case of Russian involvement in the poisoning of Litvinenko (apologies if I've spelt this wrongly) the EU would not support nor help us. Their linkages with Russia are too significant I suppose. For example the Gas supplied to them from Russia.

    It seems likely that we would be even less likely to get any support this time! We just have to look after ourselves somehow.

    On the other hand if you are saying that such events on another States soil are not of concern then I wondered why?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    Indeed. I find it very strange that people on here feel strongly about the loss of sovereignty involved in being in the EU, while Putin ticks people off his kill list on British soil, poisons a copper, carries out cyber attacks on our infrastructure, and nobody seems too bothered.
    I'm not sure it's a case of people not being bothered, more a case of it being outside our control. Whatever response the UK can generate regarding this attack, it's not something the average man or woman in the street has much control over.

    Plus, politics/espionage/warfare at international level isn't governed by quaint (religious) notions about what is good or evil. The only thing that determines what is 'right' or 'wrong' or 'good' or 'bad' is whether your actions get you where you want to be in the global power game.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LaxtonLad View Post
    How come nobody gets hurt?? I thought someone had.

    "People wandering about with nerve agent..." Do you imagine there are people actually wandering aimlessly about, whistling to themselves, carrying this stuff, swinging it in a Tesco bag? THAT is wandering about, but I would imagine them damn Russkies are a bit more secretive than that.

    If Ivan (or Vlad) wanted to poison YOU, no preventative measures could stop him. Perhaps it was an unwise thing for Amber Rudd to say she could guarantee the public their safety but it's no dafter than Ben Shepherd actually asking a loaded question like that. What else could she say? No I can't, take your chances.
    Ben Shepherd is on Good Morning Britain?
    I only notice Susanna Reid. Hmmmmmmmmmm.......

  11. #11
    I would say that 99% of the things we talk about on here (football related and non football related) are things that we don't know the full facts about and cannot influence, but we still talk about them.

    I find it strange that a tweet from Juncker or an election in a foreign country can generate so much outrage but this doesn't.
    Last edited by drillerpie; 09-03-2018 at 08:18 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    I would say that 99% of the things we talk about on here (football related and non football related) are things that we don't know the full facts about and cannot influence, but we still tall about them.
    So, if we don't talk about them and acknowledge them, we just accept them as gospel?

    No wonder you are an Europhile. The EU loves people like you. We decide what you need to know and what's best for you. Don't think, just comply.

    You're supporting the wrong club mucker.

    Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds View Post
    So, if we don't talk about them and acknowledge them, we just accept them as gospel?

    No wonder you are an Europhile. The EU loves people like you. We decide what you need to know and what's best for you. Don't think, just comply.

    You're supporting the wrong club mucker.

    Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
    Eh?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapperleypie View Post
    The attempted murder of a British spy on British soil by a foreign country should be a wake-up call to this government as to the threat posed by Russia. There is little doubt that they see the West as the enemy and will do all they can (via social media and media accounts in general) to pervert democracy by distributing disinformation in other countries for their own ends.
    I guess that this response was exactly what this event was intended to provoke........dummies!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MagpieTony View Post
    I guess that this response was exactly what this event was intended to provoke........dummies!
    I take from your response that you see no problem with it Tony.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapperleypie View Post
    I take from your response that you see no problem with it Tony.
    I see a distinct problem with the supposition that it was Russian coordinated.....Think beyond the narrative.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by MagpieTony View Post
    I see a distinct problem with the supposition that it was Russian coordinated.....Think beyond the narrative.
    If the Russians didn't do it, who do you suppose did and for what aim? Are the fake social media accounts etc also nothing to do with Russia - are they really just our misunderstood friend?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapperleypie View Post
    If the Russians didn't do it, who do you suppose did and for what aim? Are the fake social media accounts etc also nothing to do with Russia - are they really just our misunderstood friend?
    Do some digging....the truth is much more frightening.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MagpieTony View Post
    Do some digging....the truth is much more frightening.
    Where should I look first, Russia Today website?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MagpieTony View Post
    Do some digging....the truth is much more frightening.
    I've been doing a bit of digging and from what I have read from certain knowledgable sources it seems this method of silencing or punishment is an unlikely way of assassination. A "nerve agent" such as this can be traced, CCTV cameras can be checked both for activity and for facial recognition. This style of killing someone who is recognised by Russia as a traitor so easily points to Putin that it looks like a "frame-up" to me. Of course it could be meant to be so obvious that we have a plan of misdirection here.

    The common misconception of Britain lagging behind in the world of espionage and international carrying-on is way out and it works in our favour. The detection of such machinations by foreign agencies is supposedly ten years ahead of public knowledge. Britain is the world's only GLOBAL power and has a world-wide espionage system - much wider than either Russia or the USA - and you can thank our old and much derided British Empire for that
    Last edited by LaxtonLad; 09-03-2018 at 02:11 PM.

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