Time to put up or shut up.

[CromerWhite]

BTW, I was asked to provide some suggestions, I did. You may not like them, but at least they are better than "let's hope the next 9 months aren't as sh1t as the last 9".

If that's the best we can hope for in terms of "planning", League 1 here we come.

No, mate they are not better.

[WTF11]

No, mate they are not better.

Than "do nothing"? Cross fingers and hope?

Nothing more intelligent, even if you don't agree with my suggestions?

[Marley past ghosts]

No, mate they are not better.

is that cromer england , or new south wales? , just checking your on the right board , and where you have been for the last four**** years, it must be either on a desert island, or strangeways / parkhurst doing a long stretch, and obviously oblivious to the plight of this club. lol

[MrsORichSenior]

Ok, you asked for it.......

Sometimes your pontificating and superciliousness knows no bounds…..

“Critical people…..etc etc b0ll0x b0ll0x, blah blah……”

People capable of critical thought are also much more capable than those who simply accept the status quo of finding solutions to the problems they identify (Get a look at ITIL and the handling of Problem Management it recommends, and the kind of skills and qualities teams made up to address Issue and Problem management are expected to have)

I have pointed out problems with the club, and their source. Issues of poor performance of the 1st team stem from two key causes/problems;

1. The role of DoF being occupied by an individual who is patently incapable of both managing a budget and securing suitably skilled players able to be formed into a competitive squad/team
2. The head coach & coaching staff introduced immediately following the appointment of Orta as DoF, who have/had little or no experience in professional football at any level, and who are (or were) as patently unfit to perform such duties as the person who appointed them is of performing his

To address these problems, the following actions are required (I have stated these before, but just so its easy for you I’ll repeat them here);

1. Dismiss the Director of Football, and do not appoint a replacement
2. Appoint the current Head Coach as 1st team Manager
3. Devolve responsibilities previously allocated to the DoF role to the 1st team Manager
4. Dismiss coaching staff appointed by the DoF
5. Review the remaining coaching staff complement and appoint suitably qualified coaching staff, selected and recommended by the 1st team Manager to ensure a full and competent staffing level
6. Terminate the “arrangement” currently in place between Leeds United and Cultural Leonora
7. Any players currently on loan to Cultural Leonora should be incorporated into the Leeds United development squads (which team would be based on their age and current state of development)
8. At seasons end the 1st team squad to be reviewed by the Manager with a view to reducing its size, either by selling or placing on loan those players not considered likely to be capable to further development or those who are not yet of suitable quality but are seen as having potential, as appropriate
9. All 1st team selection, tactics and other football-related matters to be the ultimate responsibility of the 1st team Manager
10. The owner to make available to the 1st team Manager a suitable budget for the acquisition of a select number of key players for the 2018/19 season, the positions of play and numbers to be advised by the 1st team Manager

I am not privy to the details of salaries paid to the DoF, coaching staff, or the costs of the arrangement with Cultural Leonora, but I suspect that the short-term suggestions above, from 1 – 6 are probably cost neutral, perhaps even beneficial in reducing opex.

Provided surplus players can be removed from the wage bill, either sold or sent out on loan with the loaning club paying the majority of player wages, substantial further reductions in opex could be achieved during the summer (8 above). If slaes or loan under the conditions described can’t be achieved, then there are two alternatives;

a. Player is no longer selected for any team, and is paid the minimum subject to their contractual terms
b. Player contracts are terminated via mutual consent, with zero compensation (if not agreeable (a) applies

None of the above reduces the clubs ability to scout, although it probably makes the Managers job more challenging, which is precisely the aim, (don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better!)

None of this reduces commercial activity, (I hope our DoF isn’t involved in marketing, he has shown that simply acquiring good players is a struggle, he doesn’t need additional burdens!), although I’d suggest the relationship with Aspire and the role of Bravo should be reviewed for its benefit (short and long term) to Leeds United.

We currently charge PL-type prices for Championship football. That would be bad enough as an offering to a fan base that most clubs would die for. As it is, we rub salt in the wound by fielding sub-standard players brought in over the head of those responsible for coaching, and the results are painfully obvious for all to see, whatever role they have, from supporter to owner. Making the changes I suggest will bring about improvements in performance, which in turn will improve the supporter experience with results on the pitch.

I could go on about how we should be engaging with the young fans, as many other clubs do (the article you highlighted about Bristol City being one excellent example), about removing rip-off prices from the concessions, allowing profitable performance but not excessively so, ditto for the club shop, where Leeds could win so many friends (and by doing so generate even more good news by mouth-to-mouth recommendation) by reducing the profits made on each item, and by doing so making sure that volume of sales improves (I’d rather Leeds was as successful as Primark with its price/value proposition than Marks & Spencer with its!), but frankly I can’t be ar5ed, as the likelihood that the club will do anything of the sort is “negligible”

So, enough to be going on with, or do I get another “looking down your nose on the little people” response?

Part 1:


Thank you WTF11 for taking the time to reply to my point - appreciated.

1,2,3,4,5 - Which club operates like that in PL or FL or any European League ?

2,3,5 - Monk had that role at Boro and .............. ?

8 - The club has stated staff review at season end.
9 - The coach in situ was happy at terms/conditions at appointment.
For time,acumen and health reasons a wise decision by all parties in the pressure situation of today's game,IMO.

6,7 - The club has stated review at season end - Rad quoted upon purchase of club that 'in built flexibility' within 5 year planning structure was to be 'annually' monitored and if so required would be acted on.

10 - The Rad will no doubt have let the current Coach know exactly what was required and visa versa at appointment- its been stated by BOTH parties Hecky has FINAL say on players in/out and tactics and is IN the loop regarding all decisions on such matters.

Further - Privy details on salaries ?

Example - David Stockdale was offered £30,000 per week plus add on's within a 3 Year contract by 'Arry at Brum (£4.6 million) plus a non disclosed signing on fee as he was out of contract at Brighton.
That is why Greens replacement was not Mr Stockdale.
Sensible decision ?
(Based on prior Monk knowledge of BPF and the players contract 'small print' terms and conditions and other coaching staffs/medical assessment of BPF at that time regarding his development).Then balance that with Greens wish of guaranteed place,limited training attendance to attend his College course studies underway.

Your Orta stance,accusations ........ ?
Wolves owner and Fosun have substantial holdings via a subsidiary in Jorges Mendez agency Gestifute - after doing research for years in connection to Simon ORourkes expose on Ken Bates dealings and subsequent legal threats from Bates and his 'silent' investors thrown at us it's fair to say the Wolves scenario will get more 'heated' investigatory wise from what I've heard.
If the FA/FL turn blind eyes then I will assume the Rad will not hesitate to advise his backers to follow the example Wolves have set - I note Bristol City have now denounced Wolves too today.
Legal loopholes will be exploited - For instance, some offshore bonds still offer benefits to higher rate taxpayers because they allow a person to defer tax. Offshore bonds are however complex products that should be used by individuals who are fully aware of their tax benefits.As a contracts translator it's a common avenue legally exploited in the music industry regularly.


Surplus players ?
Well, Massimo provided that answer of how it's done for the Rad..........

Ticket pricing & young fans ?
I am privy to information but stress all is being done - and has been done and will continue to be done including Safe standing initiative introduction.Ive stated before that younger Leeds fans pricing is competitive.Fulham away next up will cost a Leeds family £250 to witness up front - nuff said.

Commercial revenue ?
I am privy to information but can state that from my position 'outside' of the club that potential financial investments from outside the clubs structure is in negotiation from within UK shores and outside of UK domaine presently.
The club already has a list of global investors with guaranteed capital awaiting upon season end reviews and season 18/19 requirements.

MOT

[MrsORichSenior]

Ok, you asked for it.......

Sometimes your pontificating and superciliousness knows no bounds…..

“Critical people…..etc etc b0ll0x b0ll0x, blah blah……”

People capable of critical thought are also much more capable than those who simply accept the status quo of finding solutions to the problems they identify (Get a look at ITIL and the handling of Problem Management it recommends, and the kind of skills and qualities teams made up to address Issue and Problem management are expected to have)

I have pointed out problems with the club, and their source. Issues of poor performance of the 1st team stem from two key causes/problems;

1. The role of DoF being occupied by an individual who is patently incapable of both managing a budget and securing suitably skilled players able to be formed into a competitive squad/team
2. The head coach & coaching staff introduced immediately following the appointment of Orta as DoF, who have/had little or no experience in professional football at any level, and who are (or were) as patently unfit to perform such duties as the person who appointed them is of performing his

To address these problems, the following actions are required (I have stated these before, but just so its easy for you I’ll repeat them here);

1. Dismiss the Director of Football, and do not appoint a replacement
2. Appoint the current Head Coach as 1st team Manager
3. Devolve responsibilities previously allocated to the DoF role to the 1st team Manager
4. Dismiss coaching staff appointed by the DoF
5. Review the remaining coaching staff complement and appoint suitably qualified coaching staff, selected and recommended by the 1st team Manager to ensure a full and competent staffing level
6. Terminate the “arrangement” currently in place between Leeds United and Cultural Leonora
7. Any players currently on loan to Cultural Leonora should be incorporated into the Leeds United development squads (which team would be based on their age and current state of development)
8. At seasons end the 1st team squad to be reviewed by the Manager with a view to reducing its size, either by selling or placing on loan those players not considered likely to be capable to further development or those who are not yet of suitable quality but are seen as having potential, as appropriate
9. All 1st team selection, tactics and other football-related matters to be the ultimate responsibility of the 1st team Manager
10. The owner to make available to the 1st team Manager a suitable budget for the acquisition of a select number of key players for the 2018/19 season, the positions of play and numbers to be advised by the 1st team Manager

I am not privy to the details of salaries paid to the DoF, coaching staff, or the costs of the arrangement with Cultural Leonora, but I suspect that the short-term suggestions above, from 1 – 6 are probably cost neutral, perhaps even beneficial in reducing opex.

Provided surplus players can be removed from the wage bill, either sold or sent out on loan with the loaning club paying the majority of player wages, substantial further reductions in opex could be achieved during the summer (8 above). If slaes or loan under the conditions described can’t be achieved, then there are two alternatives;

a. Player is no longer selected for any team, and is paid the minimum subject to their contractual terms
b. Player contracts are terminated via mutual consent, with zero compensation (if not agreeable (a) applies

None of the above reduces the clubs ability to scout, although it probably makes the Managers job more challenging, which is precisely the aim, (don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better!)

None of this reduces commercial activity, (I hope our DoF isn’t involved in marketing, he has shown that simply acquiring good players is a struggle, he doesn’t need additional burdens!), although I’d suggest the relationship with Aspire and the role of Bravo should be reviewed for its benefit (short and long term) to Leeds United.

We currently charge PL-type prices for Championship football. That would be bad enough as an offering to a fan base that most clubs would die for. As it is, we rub salt in the wound by fielding sub-standard players brought in over the head of those responsible for coaching, and the results are painfully obvious for all to see, whatever role they have, from supporter to owner. Making the changes I suggest will bring about improvements in performance, which in turn will improve the supporter experience with results on the pitch.

I could go on about how we should be engaging with the young fans, as many other clubs do (the article you highlighted about Bristol City being one excellent example), about removing rip-off prices from the concessions, allowing profitable performance but not excessively so, ditto for the club shop, where Leeds could win so many friends (and by doing so generate even more good news by mouth-to-mouth recommendation) by reducing the profits made on each item, and by doing so making sure that volume of sales improves (I’d rather Leeds was as successful as Primark with its price/value proposition than Marks & Spencer with its!), but frankly I can’t be ar5ed, as the likelihood that the club will do anything of the sort is “negligible”

So, enough to be going on with, or do I get another “looking down your nose on the little people” response?

Part 2:

Thank you WTF11 for taking the time to reply - appreciated.

You reason Primark as a bench mark market wise analyst- well, with a share of 6.9% of the current UK clothing market and now over stepping Next to become the second biggest clothing retailer in the UK via cheap bulk buy/pile 'em high stock - is that not the very suggested strategy your critical of Leeds currently doing ? ( Also took Primark more than 5 years to rebrand the UK High Street with their wares).
Primark has also been boosted by the sterling slump in the wake of the EU Referendum as around 60% of ABF’s sales (Primark owners) are of profits that are generated outside the UK please note.Global profit has kept their UK pricing low and this policy is only as good as UK folks depreciating pockets to rely on,IMO,a strategy that is rather alarming as UK future spending predictions are low compared to other economies.
So I would differ with your Primark business marker as an example to follow.

UK business growth projections are poor so bigger finance injections will becoming from afar concerning Leeds United core commercial activity.

I'm sorry you suggest I look down on you (your words) - not true in reality at all as I take on board all views with a hindsight of knowledge that sometimes I cannot divulge which then may project your stated 'looking down' scenario I project via my opinions on topics - a difficult balancing act admittedly but I do consciously try to be fair.If l have stronger views I often privately pm folks to satisfy any parties to why I'm right in expressing my view.

In my business I don't do deals - I make deals so develop verbal delivery to maximise point.Thank you for your response.

ALAW-MOT

[Marley past ghosts]

Part 2:

Thank you WTF11 for taking the time to reply - appreciated.

You reason Primark as a bench mark market wise analyst- well, with a share of 6.9% of the current UK clothing market and now over stepping Next to become the second biggest clothing retailer in the UK via cheap bulk buy/pile 'em high stock - is that not the very suggested strategy your critical of Leeds currently doing ? ( Also took Primark more than 5 years to rebrand the UK High Street with their wares).
Primark has also been boosted by the sterling slump in the wake of the EU Referendum as around 60% of ABF’s sales (Primark owners) are of profits that are generated outside the UK please note.Global profit has kept their UK pricing low and this policy is only as good as UK folks depreciating pockets to rely on,IMO,a strategy that is rather alarming as UK future spending predictions are low compared to other economies.
So I would differ with your Primark business marker as an example to follow.

UK business growth projections are poor so bigger finance injections will becoming from afar concerning Leeds United core commercial activity.

I'm sorry you suggest I look down on you (your words) - not true in reality at all as I take on board all views with a hindsight of knowledge that sometimes I cannot divulge which then may project your stated 'looking down' scenario I project via my opinions on topics - a difficult balancing act admittedly but I do consciously try to be fair.If l have stronger views I often privately pm folks to satisfy any parties to why I'm right in expressing my view.

In my business I don't do deals - I make deals so develop verbal delivery to maximise point.Thank you for your response.

ALAW-MOT

it would be quicker to read war and peace, or the bible only jesting mrs o, lol

i have a titbit of information ,which might interest you mrs o, , see what you can find out about the - the sultan of johor malaysian based i believe, needless to say he is worth a few quid lol .

very strong rumours doing the rounds in this neck of the woods , that he is interested in taking over the club or at least putting substantial investment around the end of the season . or beginning of next .

just imagine mrs o ,, a sultan in charge at elland road, with you sat next to him ,giving him your advice on matters lol

we could be the SULTANS OF SWING, MRS O, LOL ,, AFTER ALL WE HAVE BEEN IN DIRE STRAITS FOR A VERY LONG TIME NOW. LOL

[Billyni]

If we could only get you to do the Walk of Life.
As far away as fu ck in possible lol

[WTF11]

[QUOTE=MrsORichSenior;38827968]Part 2:

Ok, I have used your reply and have added some responses.

To be clear, i consider this as a purely intellectual exercise, as none of the suggestions that are likely to be of the greatest impact will be taken by the club, so should you wish not to respond, I won't be hurt.

My responses are in italics

1,2,3,4,5 - Which club operates like that in PL or FL or any European League ?

In my reply to your challenge, I never suggested I wanted to emulate, nor take as an example, the structures and internal processes of any other club, that remains the case. However I would suggest that Mourinho, Wenger, Pochetino and others in the position of Manager/Head coach at their respective clubs act in precisely the manner I suggest in my post. THEY make the suggestions on players, coaches, tactics, formations etc, and if a Dof exists, they facilitate by acquiring the players the Manager/Coach specifies. Logic would suggest that this is the ONLY way a DoF can add any value, by negotiating with player agents, clubs etc, so the terms of any deal are commercial acceptable, releasing the Manager/Head coach to concentrate on playing matters. A DoF is NOT (Or at least SHOULD not), be responsible for specifying nor determining whether player a or b or c is suitable for the squad, as they have NO responsibility for the performances of the squad (or at least, they shouldn’t have!)

2,3,5 - Monk had that role at Boro and .............. ? Irrelevant

8 - The club has stated staff review at season end. – I wait with baited breath
9 - The coach in situ was happy at terms/conditions at appointment. – Irrelevant, see my response to your comment regarding (1,2,3,4,5)

6,7 - The club has stated review at season end - Rad quoted upon purchase of club that 'in built flexibility' within 5 year planning structure was to be 'annually' monitored and if so required would be acted on. – As per 8

10 - The Rad will no doubt have let the current Coach know exactly what was required and visa versa at appointment- its been stated by BOTH parties Hecky has FINAL say on players in/out and tactics and is IN the loop regarding all decisions on such matters.

Irrelevant, (see my point regarding (1,2,3,4,5). The “current coach” would be the manager were my suggestions to be enacted, and the roles and responsibilities in place at the moment would be replaced, as per those suggestions

Example - David Stockdale was offered £30,000 per week plus add on's within a 3 Year contract by 'Arry at Brum (£4.6 million) plus a non disclosed signing on fee as he was out of contract at Brighton. – Irrelevant
That is why Greens replacement was not Mr Stockdale.

Sensible decision ? – Err, No

Monk was always going to leave, once a DoF position was announced, so what he knew of the GK situation is irrelevant. The CLUB would have known just as much about Greens situation and anything to do with BPF, so should have been able to act accordingly.
Firstly, there was no reason why the club could not have met Greens requests, for one season it would have been worth it. Secondly, as it is, we have wasted £500k on Flapper, and are considerably further down the Championship table than we would have been had we retained his services, so no, not a sensible decision to allow Green to leave, and therefore no replacement would have been required.

Your Orta stance,accusations ........ ?
Wolves owner and Fosun have substantial holdings via a subsidiary in Jorges Mendez agency Gestifute - after doing research for years in connection to Simon ORourkes expose on Ken Bates dealings and subsequent legal threats from Bates and his 'silent' investors thrown at us it's fair to say the Wolves scenario will get more 'heated' investigatory wise from what I've heard.

Don’t care, not what I was writing about and not the same situation as applies at Leeds

If the FA/FL turn blind eyes then I will assume the Rad will not hesitate to advise his backers to follow the example Wolves have set - I note Bristol City have now denounced Wolves too today.

Ditto

Legal loopholes will be exploited - For instance, some offshore bonds still offer benefits to higher rate taxpayers because they allow a person to defer tax. Offshore bonds are however complex products that should be used by individuals who are fully aware of their tax benefits.As a contracts translator it's a common avenue legally exploited in the music industry regularly.

Ditto

Surplus players ?

Well, Massimo provided that answer of how it's done for the Rad.......... – err, not sure what you mean. I don’t suppose many would take Cellinos modus operandii as a suitable template for any club, never mind Leeds, but one way or another the squad needs to be finessed (Radrizzani has said as much when he commented publicly that the squad is “too big”)

Ticket pricing & young fans ?

I am privy to information but stress all is being done - and has been done and will continue to be done including Safe standing initiative introduction.Ive stated before that younger Leeds fans pricing is competitive.Fulham away next up will cost a Leeds family £250 to witness up front - nuff said. –

Err, pricing for young fans is NOT competitive. £10 tickets (both accompanied and otherwise) are regularly publicised by Spam for their home matches in the Premiership, they are by no means the only example. For ALL PL clubs, adult away prices have been capped at £30, something our away followers can only dream of. If away fans are to be encouraged, all Championship clubs should do something similar, but with Leeds, as the club that regularly takes the largest away following, they could, and should, make it their business to take a lead.

Commercial revenue ?

I am privy to information but can state that from my position 'outside' of the club that potential financial investments from outside the clubs structure is in negotiation from within UK shores and outside of UK domaine presently.
The club already has a list of global investors with guaranteed capital awaiting upon season end reviews and season 18/19 requirements. – I wait with baited breath

You reason Primark as a bench mark market wise analyst- well, with a share of 6.9% of the current UK clothing market and now over stepping Next to become the second biggest clothing retailer in the UK via cheap bulk buy/pile 'em high stock - is that not the very suggested strategy your critical of Leeds currently doing ? ( Also took Primark more than 5 years to rebrand the UK High Street with their wares).

Err….To be very, very clear, I am absolutely in favour of the Primark model in terms of Leeds apparel and other items sold online and in the Leeds shop. I AM NOT in favour of the same policy as it HAS been applied to the “buy em cheap, stack em high” approach to player acquisition!!!

As to your view going forward, as with all businesses, global influences will play a part, but retaining a high-volume, relatively low-margin approach to sales of apparel etc will be most sustainable, both when domestic budgets are under pressure and cost/value is uppermost in peoples minds, and in less “fraught” times, when a retailer who has built up a loyal and committed customer base will be rewarded with even greater transaction volumes. M&S, Next, good old BHS are all suffering because they have sought to hold the high ground, some have gone, others will either shrink or fail. I’d prefer Leeds to be a Primark, when it comes to selling “stuff”, NOT how it acquires playing resources.


I suspect that others will be bored with this now (probably were when they saw my first response), so by all means respond if you wish, but perhaps that should be the end of this "dialogue".

[MrsORichSenior]

Healthy debate ...................... prompts interest and answers which in turn answers questions asked by those with an interest.

Money invested into football is high risk but done within the Rules/Laws it can yield high returns for those who may speculate to accumulate - regardless as time will determine outcome ultimately............. how much,when and from whom is a question that those running the UK game should be now seriously asking - a travesty should football end up like the select UK franchise High Street monopolies,IMO.


https://youtu.be/4UostF_73po

MOT

[MrsORichSenior]

it would be quicker to read war and peace, or the bible only jesting mrs o, lol

i have a titbit of information ,which might interest you mrs o, , see what you can find out about the - the sultan of johor malaysian based i believe, needless to say he is worth a few quid lol .

very strong rumours doing the rounds in this neck of the woods , that he is interested in taking over the club or at least putting substantial investment around the end of the season . or beginning of next .

just imagine mrs o ,, a sultan in charge at elland road, with you sat next to him ,giving him your advice on matters lol

we could be the SULTANS OF SWING, MRS O, LOL ,, AFTER ALL WE HAVE BEEN IN DIRE STRAITS FOR A VERY LONG TIME NOW. LOL

Mmmm - It's the Sultans elder son Prince Tunku Ismail Sultan Ibrahim who uses football to promote his Fathers regional business interests - heavily involved in media business initiatives and people within it (Rad).

Page 10/Conclusion - shows he's aware of the value of his family possibly owning a club too,his family backed club has won the MSL four times in a row 2014/15/16/17 and provides decent money revenue for companies who own,err,media rights to screen games .............

ALAW - MOT


https://www.iseas.edu.sg/images/pdf/...ve_2017_75.pdf