Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: No Comment at the moment

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,375

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,171
    The club promised an 'independent' enquiry in 2016 and so why didn't they do it?

    That looks pretty bad unless you can think of a reason why a police investigation would be inferior to an independent one or are they in fact the same thing but in one regard perhaps better because the police have powers to investigate and interrogate and even arrest people that the other one can't? However, the difference could be that most independent enquiries have a prominent lawyer or QC leading them which be very costly anyway but the findings tend to be made public to give everyone confidence all the issues have been looked at and so is there any reason why the police investigations and their final report if that is what convinced the club that no further action is needed, is also made public?

    If the club just say its been investigated by the police and that's the end of the matter, then its likely the pressure on them will just increase to have one. I did think they were having one as they said so and so once again, why did they not explain to the public and especially the victims and their families why they changed their minds? This club really does need to up its game in this regard. It's not as though they have been warned dozens of times they really do need to communicate far far better and not act like they are in a 100 feet underground bunker!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    655
    I find myself agreeing with you, Mike, which must be for the second time since I started using this site!!!

    As you rightly say, the Police may well have cleared the club of legal wrongdoing (twice) but that only goes so far. It’s all about public perception now and the Alex could give lessons on how not to go about that. Personally I would rather they brought someone in to look at current practices as that is more relevant to today’s standards in safeguarding young people than that which pertained 30 years ago.

    However much we might think we are becoming the scapegoat club in this whole sordid affair, the fact remains we are one of the clubs at the centre of it and employed a *****phile for several years. Whatever it takes to at least try to clear our name must be done; let’s not forget that some of our former kids say they were known as the ***** boys and I for one find that appalling and something that we should do whatever it takes to make sure is never repeated.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,375
    A purely hypothetical question but let's say the club had done an independent investigation which showed the club didn't know anything about this, then would people say it was a whitewash and the police should be called in ?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by out0lunch View Post
    A purely hypothetical question but let's say the club had done an independent investigation which showed the club didn't know anything about this, then would people say it was a whitewash and the police should be called in ?
    Same questions though mate..

    Why say they were going to have an 'independent' investigation and then don't have one and worse, don't explain why they changed their mind to call in the police instead? Cynics may think that was to save cash. I couldn't possibly comment. But everyone needed to know what the scope of the investigation was, who was dealing with it, one copper or 50 or which police force and what remit they had and then for the club to publish the findings. How can the victims or the parents past, present and future have confidence in the club if they don't know anything other than the club saying its all been dealt with. Didn't they say that before?

    The whole reason for an 'independent' enquiry is so all this can be put in the public domain and investigated thoroughly.

    The club needs to come out and answer these questions and not just hope it goes away on its own..It won't.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    451
    Regardless of whether a separate investigation would have been a good thing, we can't say they did npot explain why they changed their minds - it's basically what the first half of statement 2 on 2 March was about: https://www.crewealex.net/news/2018/...rry-bennell-2/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by ShropshireAlex View Post
    Regardless of whether a separate investigation would have been a good thing, we can't say they did npot explain why they changed their minds - it's basically what the first half of statement 2 on 2 March was about: https://www.crewealex.net/news/2018/...rry-bennell-2/
    Thanks for that and wonder if that was made available to the wider media and press?

    That report said this..

    Following Mr Bennell’s dismissal, the club acknowledges that Mr Gradi wrote to parents advising that he did not want any of the boys to attend other coaching sessions or games organised by Mr Bennell. The reason for this letter being written was simply because the club and Mr Gradi did not want to potentially lose any promising young players to a team coached by Mr Bennell. This letter was not written in the context of either the club or Mr Gradi having any knowledge of complaints for sexual assault being made against Mr Bennell.

    Sherlock Holmes would possibly say that didn't make sense as why not just sack the bloke? The parents were surely not in any position to know who was coaching at any particular session and how would they know in advance, when they arrived at RH? That really does not make sense at all at least to me...IF the club wanted to do that, they should have suspended Bennell full stop. Why didn't they my dear Watson?

    Also final sentence says..

    Note to Editors – the club will not be offering interviews or further comments on the statement at this stage.

    WHY NOT would be a reasonable question? They surely had nothing to hide by doing so?



    It is making Hamilton Smith not to be telling the truth and Sherlock would say what had he to gain by coming out with that albeit later?

    The question remains that if they have nothing to hide, they could have made that police investigation report PUBLIC and not just give it to the FA...Will the FA make ALL their investigations public when completed or just an abridged version?

    Maybe an 'independent' enquiry would have asked some of these questions and delved deeper??

    Maybe maybe maybe and why it's still seems far from over and now our MP is asking for one?
    Last edited by MikeSB; 12-03-2018 at 06:54 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,171
    I was just going to add a very simple question and hope the police would have too..

    Surely it was not the parents responsibility to tell their child not to allow Bennell to coach them but the club's responsibility as his employer who and who not to coach and so did they tell him? Parents send their kids to school and have no power to tell their child they should not be taught by such and such teacher etc...

    Just an opinion but that is about the weakest argument I have seen in the whole statement.

    I'm not suggesting anything sinister and maybe the club operated more as a amateur outfit in these things than we give them credit for?

    You really don't need to be a QC to ask these questions that jump out on you..

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    197
    Getting a bit boring if MAN CITY had done the right thing instead of brushing Bennel under the carpet we wouldn’t be having this conversation oh let’s not take on the big boys and there massive law team the media will pick on us little old crewe hey not saying we’re inoccent but I feel the blame is at city’s door step end off

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    655
    Mike is absolutely right and Preston is mainly wrong.

    There are holes in the club’s statements and they have been eloquently opened up and, if the Board think that’s the end of the matter they are sadly mistaken.

    The blame does not start and end with City, or any other club. They should shoulder their share of responsibility (and have an independent enquiry to hopefully find that out) but to say that they are responsible for Bennell’s heinous crimes at the Alex is just naive and smacks of washing our hands of the whole nasty business.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    418
    it would be better if a genuinely independent inquiry was commissioned by the Club. Yes, it is possible that the conclusions would be weighted against the Club, but it would surely be better that it accepted mea culpa than trying to circle the wagons tighter and maintain it had no knowledge of what Bennell was up to. Pleading ignorance is laughable. There must be one or more grown ups who had at least an inkling of what Bennell was like. Did no parent ever speak up? How does the allegation of porn at Dario's house fit into the picture? The latter may be untrue or a separate incident unrelated to Bennell's crimes. Just dismissing Hamilton's claims by saying we do not recall him raising them is unsatisfactory. The Club has a responsibility to be fully transparent about what happened and who knew.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by AstonAlex View Post
    Mike is absolutely right and Preston is mainly wrong.

    There are holes in the club’s statements and they have been eloquently opened up and, if the Board think that’s the end of the matter they are sadly mistaken.

    The blame does not start and end with City, or any other club. They should shoulder their share of responsibility (and have an independent enquiry to hopefully find that out) but to say that they are responsible for Bennell’s heinous crimes at the Alex is just naive and smacks of washing our hands of the whole nasty business.
    I did write a lengthy response but basically asks why did the club think it was reasonable for Dario to have to write to the parents when they has absolutely no control over who was going to coach their children other than the club who employed Bennell and if he was not acting in the clubs interest in ANY way or indeed the kids themselves, why wasn't he sacked and shown the door? That is a niggly question that may have far reaching implications?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSB View Post
    I did write a lengthy response but basically asks why did the club think it was reasonable for Dario to have to write to the parents when they has absolutely no control over who was going to coach their children other than the club who employed Bennell and if he was not acting in the clubs interest in ANY way or indeed the kids themselves, why wasn't he sacked and shown the door? That is a niggly question that may have far reaching implications?
    Oh I forgot, didn't Graham McGarry try to ask a question about Hamilton Smith at the recent fans forum and was shut down by Mr Bowler? I may have read that incorrectly as wasn't there myself. I still think fans applauding seems a bit bizarre to say the least....Yes it was a fans forum and questions ON and OFF the field are always relevant to the only time fans get to question the Directors...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    473
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSB View Post
    I was just going to add a very simple question and hope the police would have too..

    Surely it was not the parents responsibility to tell their child not to allow Bennell to coach them but the club's responsibility as his employer who and who not to coach and so did they tell him? Parents send their kids to school and have no power to tell their child they should not be taught by such and such teacher etc...

    Just an opinion but that is about the weakest argument I have seen in the whole statement.

    I'm not suggesting anything sinister and maybe the club operated more as a amateur outfit in these things than we give them credit for?

    You really don't need to be a QC to ask these questions that jump out on you..
    Sorry Mike,
    Am I missing something here. At the start of your summary (thanks for that by the way), it states that AFTER Bennell was dismissed Dario wrote to the parents. How does that fit in with your statement above. Surely the letter was asking the parents not to send their children to another club on Bennels advice?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by Teammoo View Post
    Sorry Mike,
    Am I missing something here. At the start of your summary (thanks for that by the way), it states that AFTER Bennell was dismissed Dario wrote to the parents. How does that fit in with your statement above. Surely the letter was asking the parents not to send their children to another club on Bennels advice?
    OK...my mistake, I thought he wrote that while he was still employed but leaves the same questions...

    Was Bennell 'dismissed' then? Or did he leave on his own accord? If he was dismissed, for what reason? How long was that after Hamilton Smith made his comments to the Board? If indeed he made them which the others say he didn't. What has HS to gain by saying what he did?

    How likely was it that parents would send their kids possibly hundreds of miles away to play in Bennell's team or have coaching sessions a couple of times a week? It just leaves more and more questions imo...So lets say ManU employed Bennell, BTW I don't know where he went afterwards but why would any parent not be interested in ManU or ManC or Liverpool even if Bennell was part of the coaching staff?

    More questions than answers as they say...

    What was the purpose of the board including that comment about Dario writing to parents if its not relevant? Did one or some parents ask the same questions at the time or since?
    Last edited by MikeSB; 13-03-2018 at 06:03 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSB View Post
    I did write a lengthy response but basically asks why did the club think it was reasonable for Dario to have to write to the parents when they has absolutely no control over who was going to coach their children other than the club who employed Bennell and if he was not acting in the clubs interest in ANY way or indeed the kids themselves, why wasn't he sacked and shown the door? That is a niggly question that may have far reaching implications?
    If you read the statement again you'll see Dario wrote that to parents *after* Bennell had left Crewe; it says because they didn't want him poaching our kids after leaving Crewe employment.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    451
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSB View Post
    Thanks for that and wonder if that was made available to the wider media and press?
    Well it was widely discussed in the national and local press - Radio Joke interviewed a woman solicitor from Slater Gordon saying they should have re-run the Police investigation in house at the club's expense.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSB View Post
    That report said this..

    Following Mr Bennell’s dismissal, the club acknowledges that Mr Gradi wrote to parents advising that he did not want any of the boys to attend other coaching sessions or games organised by Mr Bennell. The reason for this letter being written was simply because the club and Mr Gradi did not want to potentially lose any promising young players to a team coached by Mr Bennell. This letter was not written in the context of either the club or Mr Gradi having any knowledge of complaints for sexual assault being made against Mr Bennell.

    Sherlock Holmes would possibly say that didn't make sense as why not just sack the bloke? The parents were surely not in any position to know who was coaching at any particular session and how would they know in advance, when they arrived at RH? That really does not make sense at all at least to me...IF the club wanted to do that, they should have suspended Bennell full stop. Why didn't they my dear Watson?
    As you have acknowledged elsewhere, your own quote says "Following .. Bennell's dismissal".

    .............................


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSB View Post
    The question remains that if they have nothing to hide, they could have made that police investigation report PUBLIC and not just give it to the FA...Will the FA make ALL their investigations public when completed or just an abridged version?
    Might need Police agreement to publish *their* report publicly, rather than simply supply it for another investigation (the FA's)?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by ShropshireAlex View Post
    Well it was widely discussed in the national and local press - Radio Joke interviewed a woman solicitor from Slater Gordon saying they should have re-run the Police investigation in house at the club's expense.

    As you have acknowledged elsewhere, your own quote says "Following .. Bennell's dismissal".

    Might need Police agreement to publish *their* report publicly, rather than simply supply it for another investigation (the FA's)?
    It makes no sense whatever..

    Why would parents have to be written to to tell them not to allow Bennell to have coaching 'sessions' or play for any of his teams? Bennell could well have a legal case for employment discrimination and loss of potential earnings etc imo.What right has the club or ANY club to do that anyway?

    WHY is always the best question as where was Bennell going when he was 'dismissed' but we still don't know why he was dismissed? Did the police ask why? How would parents KNOW where he was going? It could have been abroad. Why would parents not allow their kids to attend coaching sessions if he just happened to be self employed and still lived in the area? He may have been considered superior to what the Alex could offer? ie like a private Tutor? Did the parents know why Bennell was dismissed? Why would Bennell be in any position to have a 'team' anywhere at any club if he wasn't the manager and just a coach...Why would parents take their kids away from the world famous Alex Academy and possibly have to take them hundreds of miles away? As it turned out he went and coached for Stoke Dominoes a non league club...some threat hey?

    Nah, it makes no sense other than the club may have some other motive and your guess is as good as anyone?...Sherlock Holmes would deduce some clues!

    Re the police report. Unless that is made public, some people could claim it was very thorough or a whitewash ie if it remains secret and the FA will make a report but will they just say nothing as Hamilton Smith said before. Or just a small extract for Crewe as they are looking at dozens of clubs and hundreds of abuse cases. It won't go away until the club have what they promised and that was an 'independent' enquiry that would extend its remit beyond what the police's remit was and who knows what that was anyway.

    I suppose the next stage will be the compensation claims and whether those are made public including the amount paid?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    552
    Falefaninpeace outed as a troll, then MikeSB takes over.......

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor_Death View Post
    Falefaninpeace outed as a troll, then MikeSB takes over.......
    Jesus, some of yo just keep embarrassing yourself with this topic. What does ‘outed as a troll’ even mean? Caught having an opinion? For saying you should have an independent inquiry? Do you know what the word troll actually means? Who ‘outed’ me anyway?
    I suppose you must thing that the media, ex professionals, legal professionals, politicians, the victims themselves are also trolls too for wanting an I depended inquiry? Why be so afraid of it?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •