Leeds United - v - Sheffield Wednesday ***Matchday Thread***

[MrsORichSenior]

I think im going to vomit

Charming,after I took on board your veiws and expressed them to others for a 'balanced' honest opinion on how Leeds supporters felt about matters this season ................

Below link blog ..... Ubering Up 18/3/18
Interesting views from another compatriot key board warrior of old from the Square Ball Magazine days of yesterday years ........... don't agree with all but I like the reference that "Leeds will do it OUR way come what may".It'll be an interesting Leeds Supporters AGM particularly for the Rad.

https://mglufctwitterextension.wordpress.com

ALAW -MOT

[WTF11]

Charming,after I took on board your veiws and expressed them to others for a 'balanced' honest opinion on how Leeds supporters felt about matters this season ................

Below link blog ..... Ubering Up 18/3/18
Interesting views from another compatriot key board warrior of old from the Square Ball Magazine days of yesterday years ........... don't agree with all but I like the reference that "Leeds will do it OUR way come what may".It'll be an interesting Leeds Supporters AGM particularly for the Rad.

https://mglufctwitterextension.wordpress.com

ALAW -MOT

My point (albeit somewhat crudely put), is that when you respond to posts which are critical of Leeds the tone/content is always defensive/supportive of the club, irrespective of the subject matter, whereas with posts that are of the sort Hopeless (and others) submit, they get the thumbs up/well done/ applause type of response.

Not all that the club does/has done is bad, neither is it all good, and despite impressions and statements from some to the contrary, my posts reflect that reality (as do others). Yours are consistently and uniformly supportive of whatever the club does, or at least seeking to defend actions taken either on the basis that "I know something you don't know", or "I have experience that makes it possible for me to understand what the club is doing better than you".

As to the "Leeds will do it OUR way" comment (which by the way, I can't find in the blog), no we won't, we'll do it the way the owner determines, which I suspect won't be what most supporters would like, we will see. (And will Radrizzani actually attend the LFU AGM, given the huge influence they don't have!?)

[Jezleeds]

'Leeds will do it our way come what may'.

I don't know the context as i didn't read the article, too busy living, but to me, if it's supposed to be seen as a good thing, that just suggests doing it the failing way of the last 26 years: failure to win anything, failure to manage anything positive that we did have and failure to rise above divisions that are well beneath where we should be for an organisation in a single-club city the size of ours, with a fan-base as huge as we have.

But hey, if it's all that matters and that is indeed what was meant, let's do it OUR way - let's steadfastly make sure we keep failing but being proud that 'we are Leeds'. Heads in the Leodian sand are definitely what we need right now.

[WTF11]

Taking you post at face value that you want to hear what I think here goes .....

planning involves the following ....

1. Assess what you have and see what you need to change over a period of time - I suspect Rad was doing that when he had joint custody with MC

2. Start to work out what structurally needs to change; the ground, management, support staff, revenue streams - we have bought the ground back, he is committed to TA and improving it and restoring it in an updated fashion to what is was and is supposed to be

3.identify people who can lead and effect that change both within the club and externally - he has brought in an M.D. with a prem league background and good commercial acumen and who I believe is tasked with getting the non footballing structure and support right - he has a range of external advisors helping to rebuild the shambles many things non football related became in L1

4. Football wise - identify where you want to be as a club - he clearly wants us in the prem and identify how you want to get there - it seems but I am not privy to the inside information that he is willing to invest but sensibly and sustainably - that means not spending like a sugar daddy owner but putting in a wage and expenditure structure too try to have a framework within which players can be signed and kept.

idenifty a head coach who; you can work with, play in a style you are happy with, shares the vision and ambition and who has the skills needed.

review the players you have and work out wh0 you want to ditch or will not reasonably keep (the Taylors of this world) etc - from there work out the gaps and fill them and the areas you need to improve.

at the same time look at how you have produce your own players and bring them through.

the plan/strategy should be realistic and have 3 month, 6 month, 12 month, 24 month and 36 month milestones and targets. The plan should be reviewed regularly and revised as needed (that’s how all business plans work) the 12 month targets should be realistic unless he wans to follow the Abramovich model and invest crazy sums (which then brings different expectations). Realistically getting promotion is a three year project for several reasons...

not every player you bring in will be successful
some players will take time to mature and develop
the team will build resilience over time if head coach and squad kept together
we are not going to completely overhaul the squad in one season no matter how much we fans like it
it takes head coaches time to get their ideas across and to embed them in the team
there could be set backs along the way - injuries, unavailability etc
over a long enough period of time if you get the above things right then it will statistically be demonstrated (20 games is nowhere long enough not least when getting new things across)
You are unlikely to get it all right in year one

1. Agreed

2. Agreed in part. If structural change is required, make sure, to the best of your ability, you acquire those who can effect such structural change effectively and efficiently. Appointing a DoF with no such record of capability and competence, and vesting in that person the responsibility for recruiting the coaching staff is not doing any such thing.

3. Agreed, in part. The MD appointment makes some sense, the man has a track record that shows that he HAS competence in similar roles. The DoF etc is another matter where we won't agree, ever

4. Not much point acquiring 100% ownership if you don't plan on doing something with that status. Buying the ground back was a clear and unequivocal statement that he has plans, as well as a good way of saving money and adding asset value to the balance sheet. Other things not so clever. Suggesting a top 6 finish was an expectation THIS season, whilst overseeing the appointment of inexperienced coaching staff, and largely unknown and untried/tested players was stupidly inconsistent. You can't have both, unless you have sold your soul to the devil on the basis that he will give you diamonds in the rough in every case.

In addition, you can't say that spending is sensible and sustainable when the wage bill goes up by £7m in one season, and he has admitted that the squad is "too big", he has either lost control of the budget, or he never actually had it in the first place having given over that part of the club operation to the DoF.

On the Head Coach appointment, whilst working together is important, Radrizzani is NOT responsible for determining the style of play, strategy, tactics etc, (at least he shouldn't be) as that is the DoF role, also determining the "playing style you are happy with, shares the vision". Christiansen may have been prepared to adopt that style, and he may well have had ambition, but he sure as hell didn't have the skills (or he wasn't given the tools to show he had them, which is it?)

Players weren't "ditched", they left, and the better ones (in the view of just about everyone you might care to seek opinions of) weren't replaced with anything like enough quality. Christiansen was supposed to have his dossier, detailing where improvements needed/could be made. Is it really being suggested (by you or anyone else) that any improvement has been made?

If there is a plan, without wishing to be made privy to commercial confidences, it might be good to let fans into a few of those milestones. As above, the "top 6 finish this season" is public record, but not much else. As it stands alone, its the only yardstick we have to measure the clubs intent by, and they will fall a long way short, this season (so at the 12-month mark on your timeline)

If you're right, and getting promotion is a three-year project, and he had so much good will when he took full ownership (and even more when he bought ER back), why not be brave enough to say so, and get the backing of the supporters, rather than the pi55-poor expectation management so far?

To respond to the last few points

Of course not every player brought in will be successful, but less than a 45% hit rate in unacceptable. How long will be acceptable to allow development/maturing (and in the case of the GK for instance, how many points will be sacrificed to support that process)? All the rest of your points in that last section are motherhood and apple pie statements, but since when was football, the business, so amenable to giving time?

"Get it all right in year one".........the only thing that is right at the moment, in everyones view apart from yours and Mrs O's (possibly Clives), at the end of year one of Radrizzani as 100% owner, compared to last season, is that the club owner owns our ground.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Fair play for predominantly playing the ball and not the man.

i think there are a few more bright spots amongst the gloom but know you disagree which is fair enough. I don’t speak for others and whilst the wheels have come off I suspect that there are a few more on here that think there is more to be positive about than simply owning the ground but they can say for themselves rather than us decide who they may be. I speak for myself only.

surely there are a few more bright spots though; Saiz, BPF (thought he would be up there for you), Jannson, Forshaw, Alioski (he was v good v Wendies), the new kit?, ore engagement with the fans even if that engagement needs to be calibrated.

we did move on a lot of players over the summer such as Douk, Douigara etc. Just look at squad list from last season and compare to this.

i guess the difference in outlook is that if there is a problem rather than moan about it I always look at how it can be fixed and have great belief in the powers of positivity.


we won a fair few games at the start of the season and scored some cracking goals against decent teams; I take from that there must be potential to do it again. Also Villa and Boro were awful at the start of the season but look at them now - the capricious nature of football.

[Marley past ghosts]

Fair play for predominantly playing the ball and not the man.

i think there are a few more bright spots amongst the gloom but know you disagree which is fair enough. I don’t speak for others and whilst the wheels have come off I suspect that there are a few more on here that think there is more to be positive about than simply owning the ground but they can say for themselves rather than us decide who they may be. I speak for myself only.

surely there are a few more bright spots though; Saiz, BPF (thought he would be up there for you), Jannson, Forshaw, Alioski (he was v good v Wendies), the new kit?, ore engagement with the fans even if that engagement needs to be calibrated.

we did move on a lot of players over the summer such as Douk, Douigara etc. Just look at squad list from last season and compare to this.

i guess the difference in outlook is that if there is a problem rather than moan about it I always look at how it can be fixed and have great belief in the powers of positivity.


we won a fair few games at the start of the season and scored some cracking goals against decent teams; I take from that there must be potential to do it again. Also Villa and Boro were awful at the start of the season but look at them now - the capricious nature of football.

villa and boro were always going to be up there at the end of the season , they have spent proper money and have bigger and better squads than leeds. the teams we beat early on at the start of the season on sky on our good run , are all near the bottom of the table now , bolton, forest, sunderland, etc, we were lulled in to a false sense of security from the start

look at the current top six now , out of them teams we have only managed to beat boro at home , we have lost far more points to most of them than we have gained.

saiz and jansson will be sold in the summer , they are not going to stay when other clubs can lure them away on far bigger wages and radrizaani wont turn down massive profits on either of them . contracts dont mean nothing when big money comes in to play .

the true state of affairs is, we have won one game since boxing day, and are in a far worse position than last season , the squad is weaker , we are lower in the league table , and are changing managers every five minutes , because the owner does not want to spend serious money on the team , that is the real truth .

we have gone backwards fella, no two ways about it.

[Jezleeds]

Fair play for predominantly playing the ball and not the man.

i think there are a few more bright spots amongst the gloom but know you disagree which is fair enough. I don’t speak for others and whilst the wheels have come off I suspect that there are a few more on here that think there is more to be positive about than simply owning the ground but they can say for themselves rather than us decide who they may be. I speak for myself only.

surely there are a few more bright spots though; Saiz, BPF (thought he would be up there for you), Jannson, Forshaw, Alioski (he was v good v Wendies), the new kit?, ore engagement with the fans even if that engagement needs to be calibrated.

we did move on a lot of players over the summer such as Douk, Douigara etc. Just look at squad list from last season and compare to this.

i guess the difference in outlook is that if there is a problem rather than moan about it I always look at how it can be fixed and have great belief in the powers of positivity.


we won a fair few games at the start of the season and scored some cracking goals against decent teams; I take from that there must be potential to do it again. Also Villa and Boro were awful at the start of the season but look at them now - the capricious nature of football.

I don't know, HO, i don't think there's anything capricious about it - there's a common series of elements to Man City, Wolves, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Leicester, Tottenham, Liverpool, Bayern Munich, Juve, Seville, or any other team doing well in any league in Europe. Even Aston Villa and Boro would fit in - they're not necessarily going to win promotion, but they've had damn sight better attempt at it than us.

They're there through a combination of significant investment over time, paying high wages for players and managing their resources according to their ambitions - using all the means at their disposal, to acquire the quality of players needed.

We're assured we now have the right quality of management in place, although if i managed my organisation in that manner i figure my employees would question my abilities: the choice of advisors; the unwillingness to blame them when it's pretty clear to most observers they have made serious misjudgements in terms of judging quality of players; the ill-judged public statements about decision-making showing lack of decisiveness; the attack on the former manager who was trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and maybe did a reasonable job in hindsight; etc etc).

Hopefully the management does turn out to be worth its salt. So to back that up we need the appropriate level of investment to match stated ambitions. There won't be anything capricious about the outcome of that if we do it the way other successful clubs have.

[MrsORichSenior]

'Leeds will do it our way come what may'.

I don't know the context as i didn't read the article, too busy living, but to me, if it's supposed to be seen as a good thing, that just suggests doing it the failing way of the last 26 years: failure to win anything, failure to manage anything positive that we did have and failure to rise above divisions that are well beneath where we should be for an organisation in a single-club city the size of ours, with a fan-base as huge as we have.

But hey, if it's all that matters and that is indeed what was meant, let's do it OUR way - let's steadfastly make sure we keep failing but being proud that 'we are Leeds'. Heads in the Leodian sand are definitely what we need right now.

You'd have to have basic knowledge of all the Leeds United fractious supporter groups Jez to understand the 'blog/article' ............
I linked the blog as LFU has over 2,000 members from all over including local community groups with some serious global big cash guns amongst its ranks and their goal of a stake in the club was serious - now they may wish to invest direct with the Rad or some of their corporate members may have alternative ideas to discuss with the Rad .......... Massimo chose to sell to the Rad ultimately but LFU may be keen to invest yet again directly or indirectly.

For info starters,Elland Road - Radrizzani allowed LUST to register it as an Asset of Community Value and the 'community vested interested groups' have six months to buy it if they so wish.Radrizzani can only sell to whoever he wants after six months via a clause period - but in any event he won't be able to shift the freehold of it offshore like before as the community has blocked such action legally.

Add the fact that land development around ER into the mix and planning permission only lasts so long, third parties coming in to pay for development thus leaving debts that have to be paid.But if a club has assets that can be realised in 2/3/4/5 years time they can be sold leaving the debts for someone else to pick up - as we know.Interested parties from outside UK often use mediators,so my services if they require language translations are often used.

Many folks buy football clubs to develop stadia and surrounding land with borrowed money (Mmmm as we know) then sell,take the profit and scuttle off back to the other side of the world with a profit leaving a club in administration.(Mmmm as we know).

Like you Jez - 'I'm to busy living' and have to earn a living which sometimes involves matters involving my home city and football club working with a variety of people who pay me to get results for them and is why folks like YOU and WTF11 fail to understand why I am positive in my posts/replies and cannot forward all details that may be negative.
Investment is complicated as is managing debt - but if there is a will there's a way !

ALAW - MOT

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

I don't know, HO, i don't think there's anything capricious about it - there's a common series of elements to Man City, Wolves, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Leicester, Tottenham, Liverpool, Bayern Munich, Juve, Seville, or any other team doing well in any league in Europe. Even Aston Villa and Boro would fit in - they're not necessarily going to win promotion, but they've had damn sight better attempt at it than us.

They're there through a combination of significant investment over time, paying high wages for players and managing their resources according to their ambitions - using all the means at their disposal, to acquire the quality of players needed.

We're assured we now have the right quality of management in place, although if i managed my organisation in that manner i figure my employees would question my abilities: the choice of advisors; the unwillingness to blame them when it's pretty clear to most observers they have made serious misjudgements in terms of judging quality of players; the ill-judged public statements about decision-making showing lack of decisiveness; the attack on the former manager who was trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and maybe did a reasonable job in hindsight; etc etc).

Hopefully the management does turn out to be worth its salt. So to back that up we need the appropriate level of investment to match stated ambitions. There won't be anything capricious about the outcome of that if we do it the way other successful clubs have.

jez

Dont disagree with much of what you say. I meant capricious in the sense for a while the results didn’t go their way and they were in a false position (us in reverse when we were 1st).

Agree on instilling confidence in employees and would be in the same boat as you in what I do. I think the non football stuff looks much better in that regard though.

Football side needs work and not saying we are perfect, we are far from the finished article, but better in my eyes than for a while. Prepared to cut Rad some slack as he is new to this though do think we was wrong to get rid of TC and should keep a dignified silence on matters which should remain private.

Squad wise I do think it is better than last years. I guess the acid test this year will be if we keep hold of good players and then add to them ....

.. oh and the small matter of finding a manager/coach/leader who can take the squad forward. PH likeable chap but results heading south.

cheers

[Marley past ghosts]

this squad is not better than last years , we are four****th in the league table and dropping like a lead balloon .lol

we finished seventh last season just outside the playoffs . lol

you clearly need to buy a new pair of spectacles sunshine . lol