Jeremy....the end ?

[Balanbam00]

59 60:
You say .......'' Yet the Israeli army has no problem at all manning the self same barrier.'' Could you explain this ,what you mean exactly??

[Balanbam00]

Standing with African migrants, former IDF fighters recall their ‘hell’
After suppressing traumatic memories for years, soldiers who greeted asylum seekers in Israel after their long journey in the deserts of Africa have decided to share their experiences; ‘While I was on guard duty, I saw the Egyptians placing them in a row and executing them,’ Staff Sgt. Nir Leibler recalls; ‘One woman was full of scars on her body from melted plastic and cigarettes,’ First Lt. Eliana Bastiaans says.

THIS IS A 'MUST READ - ISRAELI Bar-stewards etc !!!

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...198305,00.html

[The Bedlington Terrier]

It could be worse Balan, the lunatic right in the UK recently advocated, "Punish a Muslim Day".

Can't remember much too indignation from our hapless Government but they were too busy lying about the source of "Russian" nerve gas...

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...inionconnectuk

[1959_60]

Morning Balan.

I honestly try to look at the situation from a neutral standpoint. You and Sinkov may well be correct, and we in the West may be being sold a false story from the various media outlets. But I do know a few Jewish people and a couple of Palestinians as well.

What I will ask you is, how do you want it to be resolved? Do you wish to take over all the land or do you think there should be a viable Palestinian state?

And imagine that the dice had fallen differently, and you were a Palestinian living in the occupied territories. Same question, how would you want the situation to be resolved? Would you just accept the constant land grabs of you territory?

As for your question about the barrier. I presume (I may be wrong here, if so please educate me) that the barrier is located on the land boundary between Israel and Palestine?
If so, why is it OK to shoot Palestinians who "approach" the boundary, whilst the Israeli forces can actively control the border, armed to the teeth?
It seems to me that "the border" must be equally treated by both sides?
If there were a border in Ireland for example, why should the Irish army be allowed to shoot people from the North who "approach" the border, whilst this would not be acceptable on the other side?

I would love someone to come up with a solution to this, but the status quo will not help.

[Balanbam00]

Well, I am not afraid to state it, but I do it every year on the same date, yes quiet so, this ''Punish a Muslim Day"! Why not? Look what they do to us ! My old baseball bat comes in very useful, 30th of Feb, every year!!

[1959_60]

What a coincidence Balanbam.

That's the same day that I put the shelving up that Mrs 59-60 wants.

[sinkov]

It could be worse Balan, the lunatic right in the UK recently advocated, "Punish a Muslim Day".

Can't remember much too indignation from our hapless Government but they were too busy lying about the source of "Russian" nerve gas...

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/04/boris-johnson-liability-porton-down-russia?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaig n=Opinion+UK+connected&utm_term=270150&subid=13840 666&CMP=ema_opinionconnecturl]

l'm intrigued BT, just who is this 'lunatic right', it can't be the Tories, lunatic certainly, but not of the right since they stuck the knife into Mrs T, have you got a link ?

[sinkov]

Morning Balan.

I honestly try to look at the situation from a neutral standpoint. You and Sinkov may well be correct, and we in the West may be being sold a false story from the various media outlets. But I do know a few Jewish people and a couple of Palestinians as well.

What I will ask you is, how do you want it to be resolved? Do you wish to take over all the land or do you think there should be a viable Palestinian state?

And imagine that the dice had fallen differently, and you were a Palestinian living in the occupied territories. Same question, how would you want the situation to be resolved? Would you just accept the constant land grabs of you territory?

As for your question about the barrier. I presume (I may be wrong here, if so please educate me) that the barrier is located on the land boundary between Israel and Palestine?
If so, why is it OK to shoot Palestinians who "approach" the boundary, whilst the Israeli forces can actively control the border, armed to the teeth?
It seems to me that "the border" must be equally treated by both sides?
If there were a border in Ireland for example, why should the Irish army be allowed to shoot people from the North who "approach" the border, whilst this would not be acceptable on the other side?

I would love someone to come up with a solution to this, but the status quo will not help.

There cannot be a solution 59/60, Iran sponsors Hamas and Hezbollah, all three have no desire to negotiate a settlement with Israel, quite the opposite, they actively desire the destruction of Israel, they seek nothing less than to wipe it off the face of the earth. And also all three are virulently anti-semitic, it's not Israel per se they seek to destroy, it's the JEWISH state of Israel whose existence so offends them, and every Jew on the planet.

Whilst it can appear at times that the Israelis are their own worst enemies, they are in a difficult situation, all I would ask is that the above is taken into account whan discussing the situation. Egypt and Jordan manage to co-exist with Israel, so after a fashion did Syria under Assad, if Hamas cannot is it really all down to Israeli intransigence ?

[1959_60]

At the moment the problem looks intractable, eh Sinkov?

I agree with a lot you are saying, but Israel generally has never accepted Palestines right to exist. This has been their default position for a long time.
It certainly predates Hamas (1987) and Hezbollah (1985).
To me, these groups were formed out of desperation and frustration at the way that the Palestinians (and Lebanese) perceived that their plight was being ignored.
To be honest Sinkov, if England systematically had land claimed by the French, and the world ignored our situation I might even consider forming my own group to oppose the situation. What would you do in these circumstances? We are talking about families like yours and mine here, and I would want to look after them.

There HAS to be a different way to sort it out but I see no evidence of progress at all, despite the best intentions of the UN and Tony Bleeding Blair as "peace" envoy to the area.

Ordinary people on both sides want peace, respect and security. Surely there is common ground with the majority of the populations on both sides.

To demonize either side (I am talking about ordinary citizens here, not their Governments) as people who live for conflict and trouble makers is totally wrong. They are ordinary Mums, Dads, Sons, Daughters who want a better standard of life.

[Balanbam00]

59-60: (My answer to post #114)

First i am quiet worried about you! Lets take the facts You are falling behind now in the Prediction league! It must mean you are not sure about the 'reality' and whats happening!! Correct? :-) :-)

Ok, you ask,''Do you wish to take over all the land ?''
No ! that is what the palestinians want. Most Israelis I know ,and myself want, '' the right of every state in the area “to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.” (post 34)

Again you ask. ''Would you just accept the constant land grabs of you territory?'' ( If i was a palestinian living therein the occupied territories?)

What is the West Bank? The Hashemite Kingdom of Trans-Jordan tried to annex their newfound land west of the Jordan River by imposing their laws and naturalizing the Arab residents of the area. They went so far as to change the name of the country to Jordan, removing the prefix "Trans" as a way to hide the fact that they belong on east side of the river, but not on both.
Jordan's occupation and annexation of “their” West Bank was not recognized by the international community, or even sanctioned by the Arab League. Only Great Britain and Pakistan backed the move. During the 19 years of Jordanian occupation of the West Bank, not one move was made to establish a Palestinian State there. On the contrary, the PLO was founded during that period, with the stated goal of ridding the rest of the land of Israel (pre-1967) of the Jewish State.
So actually, we see that the term “West Bank,” which only came about as result of Jordan's imperialist effort to expand its borders at the cost of the Jewish State, is only as old as the State of Israel. Before the Jordanian invasion, this region was always called Judea and Samaria. That can clearly be seen on maps published throughout history.
So the Palestinians were Jordanian!!!!! overnight they became Palestinians