He ORTA be good!!!!!!!!!!

[Flintadore]

Our Director of Football seems to be the key to our success. Can he find ‘good enough’ players within our limited budget? For the most part, fans seem to hate VO; at best they doubt him…so I thought I’d look at the facts.

In an earlier thread I tried to show that about 70% of the money spent on new Leeds players has been decent (Jansson (3.4M), Forshaw (4.5M), Saiz (3.2M), Alioski (2.3M), Roberts (2.5M)). The rest of the purchases are relatively small outlay gambles; so we can only expect one or two to make good (ie Ekuban). Considering his remit from AR (to bulk up the squad), I don’t think VO’s record is as bad as most make out.

However, as much of the vitriol aimed at VO is based on his apparent failure at Middlesbrough…lets look at the facts.
He arrived at then Premiership Middlesbrough in Jan 2016…and so his first foray was in that winter window. So here’s what he bought (I’ll ignore the loans):-

JAN 2016
Jordan Rhodes (bought for 9M/sold for 9M (Sheff Wed))
Gaston Ramirez (bought for 4.5M/sold for 5.4M (Sampdoria))
Julien de Sart (2.25M) on loan with Zulte Waragem
Total 15.75M…recoup 13.5M

SUMMER 2016
Marten de Roon (bought for 9.5M sold for 12M (Atalanta))
Viktor Fischer (bought for 4.5M/sold for 4.5M (Mainz)
Brad Guzan (bought for 2.7M/sold for 0.9M (Atlanta United))
Antonio Barragan (bought for 2.25M/sold for 2.25M (Real Betis))
Bernardo Espinosa (bought for 2.25M/sold for 2.25M (Girona))
Adama Traore (7.4M)
Fabio da Silva (2M)
Total 29.6M…recoup 22.1M

JAN 2017
Adlene Guedioura (bought for 4.5M/ sold for free)
Rudy Gestede (6M)
Patrick Bamford (4.5M)
Total 15M…recoup 0.0M

There are a couple of screw up’s (Gestede and Guedioura), but for the most part the purchases weren’t that bad, as proven by the fact that most were easily sold (post-relegation) for equal amounts, or profit. VO also left behind the likes of Traore and Bamford.
Yes, Middlesbrough were relegated (most people thought they would be anyway), but a net spend of 25M, over 18 months is a relatively small outlay in Premiership terms. They’ll make that back by selling Traore this summer.

So, is VO all that bad? What do you lot reckon?

[WTF11]

Our Director of Football seems to be the key to our success. Can he find ‘good enough’ players within our limited budget? For the most part, fans seem to hate VO; at best they doubt him…so I thought I’d look at the facts.

In an earlier thread I tried to show that about 70% of the money spent on new Leeds players has been decent (Jansson (3.4M), Forshaw (4.5M), Saiz (3.2M), Alioski (2.3M), Roberts (2.5M)). The rest of the purchases are relatively small outlay gambles; so we can only expect one or two to make good (ie Ekuban). Considering his remit from AR (to bulk up the squad), I don’t think VO’s record is as bad as most make out.

However, as much of the vitriol aimed at VO is based on his apparent failure at Middlesbrough…lets look at the facts.
He arrived at then Premiership Middlesbrough in Jan 2016…and so his first foray was in that winter window. So here’s what he bought (I’ll ignore the loans):-

JAN 2016
Jordan Rhodes (bought for 9M/sold for 9M (Sheff Wed))
Gaston Ramirez (bought for 4.5M/sold for 5.4M (Sampdoria))
Julien de Sart (2.25M) on loan with Zulte Waragem
Total 15.75M…recoup 13.5M

SUMMER 2016
Marten de Roon (bought for 9.5M sold for 12M (Atalanta))
Viktor Fischer (bought for 4.5M/sold for 4.5M (Mainz)
Brad Guzan (bought for 2.7M/sold for 0.9M (Atlanta United))
Antonio Barragan (bought for 2.25M/sold for 2.25M (Real Betis))
Bernardo Espinosa (bought for 2.25M/sold for 2.25M (Girona))
Adama Traore (7.4M)
Fabio da Silva (2M)
Total 29.6M…recoup 22.1M

JAN 2017
Adlene Guedioura (bought for 4.5M/ sold for free)
Rudy Gestede (6M)
Patrick Bamford (4.5M)
Total 15M…recoup 0.0M

There are a couple of screw up’s (Gestede and Guedioura), but for the most part the purchases weren’t that bad, as proven by the fact that most were easily sold (post-relegation) for equal amounts, or profit. VO also left behind the likes of Traore and Bamford.
Yes, Middlesbrough were relegated (most people thought they would be anyway), but a net spend of 25M, over 18 months is a relatively small outlay in Premiership terms. They’ll make that back by selling Traore this summer.

So, is VO all that bad? What do you lot reckon?

I think you should change your nickname to Ortadore!

Don't really care what he did at Boro apart from the fact the whole exercise was a failure and why would we want a failure.for DoF if we want one at all, which is questionable.

Said on another thread, Orta DID NOT bring Jansson to Leeds, Cellino did.

Saiz and Alioski are the only players of any worth brought in by Orta during the "stack em high, sell em cheap" trawl last summer. Forshaw is a long awaited and much too late recognition that the previous strategy was wrong, and Roberts is totally unknown so hardly a credible result in terms of repaying the 2.5m spent.

Net REAL result? Two players of worth from last summer, one who we needed 6 months before he arrived, costing £10m of the £16m in your list, kind of reduces that 70% a bit, hmmmm?

The man should go, along with Wiedwald, Anita, Pennington, Buoy, Sacko, Cooper, Ekuban, Grot, Klisch, Cibicki (and yes, not all are his dross, but they are still dross) save some wages and create opportunities for real investment and breaks for the young guys in the U23s (if we really are building for the future).

[Flintadore]

Hey WTF:
You probably should consider what he did at Boro, 'cause that's his CV. Don't you look at a CV when assessing someone?

And for fear of repeating myself, I never said VO brought in Janssen, but he was the major voice in deciding whether to complete the loan deal and spend a big chunk of the budget on Jansson...so I guess we should give him some credit. After all, he's being judged by such decisions.

Yep, Forshaw came as an admission of wrong strategy, but he's still here, so a sensible decision was eventually made.

And yep, I agree there's lots of dross (AR has admitted they got the summer transfer priorities wrong) but they were all cheap (combined value of 7M), so not a catastrophe, unless we get stuck with them, which I concede might happen...we'll wait and see on that, eh? BUT...if only one comes good then we're quids in. Not sure you should write of Roberts either...as you said he's totally unknown.

[Jezleeds]

Hey WTF:
You probably should consider what he did at Boro, 'cause that's his CV. Don't you look at a CV when assessing someone?

And for fear of repeating myself, I never said VO brought in Janssen, but he was the major voice in deciding whether to complete the loan deal and spend a big chunk of the budget on Jansson...so I guess we should give him some credit. After all, he's being judged by such decisions.

Yep, Forshaw came as an admission of wrong strategy, but he's still here, so a sensible decision was eventually made.

And yep, I agree there's lots of dross (AR has admitted they got the summer transfer priorities wrong) but they were all cheap (combined value of 7M), so not a catastrophe, unless we get stuck with them, which I concede might happen...we'll wait and see on that, eh? BUT...if only one comes good then we're quids in. Not sure you should write of Roberts either...as you said he's totally unknown.

But why would we think that the amount of money he sold players off for would be a mark of his success at Boro?

Surely the only measure of his transfer 'success' should be the effect on the team on the field and their achievements?

Just because you sell players on again doesn't make their purchase a success. I'm sure we'll sell Klich in the summer, etc etc, but that won't make it a successful deal.

[WTF11]

But why would we think that the amount of money he sold players off for would be a mark of his success at Boro?

Surely the only measure of his transfer 'success' should be the effect on the team on the field and their achievements?

Just because you sell players on again doesn't make their purchase a success. I'm sure we'll sell Klich in the summer, etc etc, but that won't make it a successful deal.

Spot on.

[WTF11]

Hey WTF:
You probably should consider what he did at Boro, 'cause that's his CV. Don't you look at a CV when assessing someone?

And for fear of repeating myself, I never said VO brought in Janssen, but he was the major voice in deciding whether to complete the loan deal and spend a big chunk of the budget on Jansson...so I guess we should give him some credit. After all, he's being judged by such decisions.

Yep, Forshaw came as an admission of wrong strategy, but he's still here, so a sensible decision was eventually made.

And yep, I agree there's lots of dross (AR has admitted they got the summer transfer priorities wrong) but they were all cheap (combined value of 7M), so not a catastrophe, unless we get stuck with them, which I concede might happen...we'll wait and see on that, eh? BUT...if only one comes good then we're quids in. Not sure you should write of Roberts either...as you said he's totally unknown.

For whatever reason, Radrizzani appointed the guy, end of story.

To put the Jansson thing to bed, arriving at the conclusion that we should keep him was not exactly rocket science, so hardly a big credit to Orta.

It's his record at Leeds that counts to any evaluation of the guy, and he's been the architect of an explosion in player wages (according to the owner), and a bloated "too big" squad, full of players who are not (and will never be) good enough, not a mark of success in anyone's book.

[RetfordWhite]

For whatever reason, Radrizzani appointed the guy, end of story.

To put the Jansson thing to bed, arriving at the conclusion that we should keep him was not exactly rocket science, so hardly a big credit to Orta.

It's his record at Leeds that counts to any evaluation of the guy, and he's been the architect of an explosion in player wages (according to the owner), and a bloated "too big" squad, full of players who are not (and will never be) good enough, not a mark of success in anyone's book.

100% agree

[Flintadore]

Not saying VO was, or is a 'success'...just wondering if the evidence shows that he's not as bad as people are making out. The point about players being sold on is simply evidence that other clubs also thought that they were worth what Boro paid. If other Directors of Football rated them, then it may show that VO ain't any worse than many others...so why is he getting so much stick from Leeds fans?

And I'm not too sure that VO is the 'architect of an explosion in player wages' as the budget is set by AR (and I've never read/heard anything about AR blaming VO for that increase???)...however, again, I agree that the squad has too many sub par players, and that is definitely down to a combination of VO and AR. They do need to sort that admitted mistake out.

[Ozwhites]

Not saying VO was, or is a 'success'...just wondering if the evidence shows that he's not as bad as people are making out. The point about players being sold on is simply evidence that other clubs also thought that they were worth what Boro paid. If other Directors of Football rated them, then it may show that VO ain't any worse than many others...so why is he getting so much stick from Leeds fans?

And I'm not too sure that VO is the 'architect of an explosion in player wages' as the budget is set by AR (and I've never read/heard anything about AR blaming VO for that increase???)...however, again, I agree that the squad has too many sub par players, and that is definitely down to a combination of VO and AR. They do need to sort that admitted mistake out.

You certainly are a newbie on here my good man. You'll quickly learn that your "opinion" simply cannot possibly be right with some... Probably wasting your time responding to be honest.

[WTF11]

Not saying VO was, or is a 'success'...just wondering if the evidence shows that he's not as bad as people are making out. The point about players being sold on is simply evidence that other clubs also thought that they were worth what Boro paid. If other Directors of Football rated them, then it may show that VO ain't any worse than many others...so why is he getting so much stick from Leeds fans?

And I'm not too sure that VO is the 'architect of an explosion in player wages' as the budget is set by AR (and I've never read/heard anything about AR blaming VO for that increase???)...however, again, I agree that the squad has too many sub par players, and that is definitely down to a combination of VO and AR. They do need to sort that admitted mistake out.

Err...."why is he getting so much stick from Leeds fans"??? You have to ask that? Kind of "plain as nose on face" answer, BECAUSE HE'S DoF at LEEDS!. Just as if he was doing what he is paid to do, i.e get us players who the coach can form into a competitive squad/team, helping the coach to get us winning (or at the very least, competing), he would be getting all the plaudits in the world.

HE ISN'T, and so he will get stick, and the more he fails, the more stick he will get, hardy rocket science is it?

Frankly, as far as the budget goes, I agree that it's as much Radrizzani as it is Orta to blame. At least there has been an admission by the owner that;

A. The squad is "too big"
B. The player wage bill has increased by £5 (or is it £7) million over the last year, (with next to f00k all to show for it).

Bit like an alchoholic, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Thing is, has ANYONE heard or seen written anything from our DoF acknowledging his mistakes? And please don't tell me he is a "back room" person, he has been very handy with the quotes when trawling last year, the silence now is deafening.

Acquiring players is NOT Radrizzanis role, his is to fund what is recommended by the DoF based on his evaluation of player and squad requirement (which IMHO should in fact be done by the manager/coach, no DoF necessary thankyou very much). The buck stops on Ortas desk, nowhere else.