Hooliganism in Russia

[Airborn Pie]

Wow, Lavrov would be proud. A couple of logic-based objections from this rabid Russophobe:

If you really believe that people who criticise Russia think that everything the West does is perfect, you're either mistaken or in bad faith.

Feel free to open an OT thread about any of the issues you raised around Western foreign policy, the one about Gaza should be entertaining as you try to take the moral high ground over Israeli snipers shooting people you have repeatedly said you despise (and worse).

Have you any idea how chaotic the world would be if invading other countries was justifiable on the basis of people there speaking the same language or of once being part of the same empire? It's a truly absurd position to take.

Don't forget the farmer, killed by a tank round for 'acting suspiciously' in his own field!

Syria would have been over a long time ago without Russian involvement.

[tarquinbeech]

Wow, Lavrov would be proud. A couple of logic-based objections from this rabid Russophobe:

If you really believe that people who criticise Russia think that everything the West does is perfect, you're either mistaken or in bad faith.

Feel free to open an OT thread about any of the issues you raised around Western foreign policy, the one about Gaza should be entertaining as you try to take the moral high ground over Israeli snipers shooting people you have repeatedly said you despise (and worse).

Have you any idea how chaotic the world would be if invading other countries was justifiable on the basis of people there speaking the same language or of once being part of the same empire? It's a truly absurd position to take.

Feel free to open an OT thread about any of the issues you raised around Western foreign policy, the one about Gaza should be entertaining as you try to take the moral high ground over Israeli snipers shooting people you have repeatedly said you despise (and worse).

Wow, just wow.....so I despise the Islamic Religion but somehow, because I disagree with Israeli snipers killing kids, I am confused??????

This **** is not right, who do you think I am.....some heartless barbarian?

The West supports the murdering of kids and supports the bombing of wedding parties......Russia has stepped in to try to stop it......bad boy Putin huh?

This stuff is disgusting but the West supports it.......no, I do not like Muslims.....but I will never ever condone this....listen to the snipers laughing and joking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olSBiC-kDpA

[drillerpie]

Feel free to open an OT thread about any of the issues you raised around Western foreign policy, the one about Gaza should be entertaining as you try to take the moral high ground over Israeli snipers shooting people you have repeatedly said you despise (and worse).

Wow, just wow.....so I despise the Islamic Religion but somehow, because I disagree with Israeli snipers killing kids, I am confused??????

This **** is not right, who do you think I am.....some heartless barbarian?

The West supports the murdering of kids and supports the bombing of wedding parties......Russia has stepped in to try to stop it......bad boy Putin huh?

This stuff is disgusting but the West supports it.......no, I do not like Muslims.....but I will never ever condone this....listen to the snipers laughing and joking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olSBiC-kDpA

You don't despise Islam, you despise all Muslims. You never tire of telling us this and you seem to be proud of it. You seemed to think the Burmese army was doing sterling work with the Rohingya people and there were women and children involved in that so yes I would say you are confused.

Whether you are a heartless barbarian or not I don't know, I suppose it depends on whether you really believe the things you write or if it is just beer fuelled bravado.

The rest of your post is laughable. The West supports the murdering of kids in Gaza - no it doesn't, the west is almost completelt against USA this kind of thing, but the USA supports it. Obama started to take a tougher line with Israel but then came your fellow Muslim hater and right wing poster boy Trump who has given them carte blanche to do what they want.

Start an OT about Gaza if you want, it's an interesting topic and worthy of discussion. I've contributed to threads on it before and from experience nobody ever says 'yeah but Russia also does bad things so we can't talk about the bad things the US does' which is the Pavlovian response from Putin apologists on here whenever Russia is brought up, so we might be able to have an interesting discussion about it.

As for your second point I think you are suggesting that Putin got involved in Syria because he was so sad about collateral damage from Western air strikes. I find that totally absurd, so much so that I don't know exactly how to respond to it.

[tarquinbeech]

You don't despise Islam, you despise all Muslims. You never tire of telling us this and you seem to be proud of it. You seemed to think the Burmese army was doing sterling work with the Rohingya people and there were women and children involved in that so yes I would say you are confused.

Whether you are a heartless barbarian or not I don't know, I suppose it depends on whether you really believe the things you write or if it is just beer fuelled bravado.

The rest of your post is laughable. The West supports the murdering of kids in Gaza - no it doesn't, the west is almost completelt against USA this kind of thing, but the USA supports it. Obama started to take a tougher line with Israel but then came your fellow Muslim hater and right wing poster boy Trump who has given them carte blanche to do what they want.

Start an OT about Gaza if you want, it's an interesting topic and worthy of discussion. I've contributed to threads on it before and from experience nobody ever says 'yeah but Russia also does bad things so we can't talk about the bad things the US does' which is the Pavlovian response from Putin apologists on here whenever Russia is brought up, so we might be able to have an interesting discussion about it.

As for your second point I think you are suggesting that Putin got involved in Syria because he was so sad about collateral damage from Western air strikes. I find that totally absurd, so much so that I don't know exactly how to respond to it.

"You seemed to think the Burmese army was doing sterling work with the Rohingya people and there were women and children involved in that so yes I would say you are confused."....No Driller, you are the one that is confused. The situation in Burma and Palestine are two completely different situations, so let me attempt to explain it to you. Israel were given a strip of land back in 1947, since then they have repeatedly stolen land from the Arabs whilst the West has looked on and done nothing....the rapidly vanishing green areas are Palestinian lands


The UK sells arms to anyone and everyone it can, £144 million to Israel in the 3 years from October 2014 to September 2017 ....here are the 431 licences issued by the UK government, I cannot be bothered to check each licence but I bet there will be components for sniper rifles and night-vision equipment in there somewhere.....you will also notice £4.68 BILLION to Saudi who are busy dropping bombs on Yemen (no wonder nobody is bothering to try and stop that war, too much money to be made)
https://www.caat.org.uk/resources/ex...l&use=military

The Burmese are having problems with their Muslims, exactly the same as everyone else, including the Chinese strangely enough who have tanks on the streets in the extreme west of the New Silk Road....most if not all of the Burmese Muslims are there illegally and were forcibly removed by mobs whilst the military probably sat back and did nothing. What can I say, ethnic cleansing has been going on since man went walkabout, and moved out of the African Rift Valley....IMO the Burmese and Palestinian problems are two completely different scenarios where the West openly condemns Burma, but actively helps Israel to "cleanse" Palestine.

"Obama started to take a tougher line with Israel but then came your fellow Muslim hater and right wing poster boy Trump who has given them carte blanche to do what they want."....Trump is not my "poster boy", he was elected by the US public to run the country, and despite the MSM trying to get rid of him, is still there.....Democracy stinks huh?

"As for your second point I think you are suggesting that Putin got involved in Syria because he was so sad about collateral damage from Western air strikes. I find that totally absurd".....I posted a number of possible reasons yesterday for Putin to be involved in Syria, one of which was that Syria had fallen into a tribal civil war, with Turkey, Iran, Saudi and the US all backing various proxy armies....Russia has had some influence in Syria for years now, none of the other "world powers" seemed interested in getting directly involved. Putin basically said "enough is enough....Russia is going in, don't bother trying to stop us"....nobody did....he got a result.
Secretly I think that the West are delighted that he got involved and that ISIS were all but defeated...the latest "targeted strikes of Syrian airfields and facilities" was just a way for the US, UK and France to "look tough".....after they had warned Russia to hide their army for an afternoon....politics is fun when it works.

Lastly Driller, if you want to have a sensible discussion with me, I suggest you leave out terms like "laughable, absurd or drink-fueled bravado"....I find you a reasonably intelligent poster but fail to understand why you occasionally stoop to the levels of personal attacks and digs....thank you.

[drillerpie]

I don't consider this to be a sensible discussion: it's an exchange of sorts but it follows the usual pattern of you touching on a subject, you being challenged on said subject, you moving on to another subject with another wall of text and more links.

So I'll carry on using the words I want, especially as they express what I think most accurately.

British help for the Sionist cause goes back before 1947 but I think it would be a push to say that Britain and the West in general 'supports Israeli snipers shooting chikdren' even if we do sell them arms. Again, bearing in mind this is a thread about hooligans in Russia, I invite you to start a separate thread about arms sales if that's what you want to talk about. I'm not sure if you want to just analyse Western arms sales, or compare Western and Russian clients for arms sales, but at the moment I just see it as a standard way to deflect any criticism of Russia - ("what about...?" And what about...?)


I do find your other posts laughable. You wrote on a thread about the Rohingya people in Burma that Muslims are vermin, everyone hates them and you sarcastically joked that watching news reports on ethnic cleansing there 'made you cry into your bacon sandwich'. Apologies if I don't buy your crocodile tears for Gazans now that it's become convenient for you to mention them.

We have already had a conversation about Trump and democracy, in which I stated that he got 3 million fewer votes than Clinton and counting votes for other candidates and write-ins, about 10 million more people voted against him than for him.

In that same conversation you denied then admitted being interested in foreign politics, denied then admitted supporting Trump. We could do it all again if you want but it would be farcical to say the least.

[tarquinbeech]

I don't consider this to be a sensible discussion: it's an exchange of sorts but it follows the usual pattern of you touching on a subject, you being challenged on said subject, you moving on to another subject with another wall of text and more links.

So I'll carry on using the words I want, especially as they express what I think most accurately.

British help for the Sionist cause goes back before 1947 but I think it would be a push to say that Britain and the West in general 'supports Israeli snipers shooting chikdren' even if we do sell them arms. Again, bearing in mind this is a thread about hooligans in Russia, I invite you to start a separate thread about arms sales if that's what you want to talk about. I'm not sure if you want to just analyse Western arms sales, or compare Western and Russian clients for arms sales, but at the moment I just see it as a standard way to deflect any criticism of Russia - ("what about...?" And what about...?)


I do find your other posts laughable. You wrote on a thread about the Rohingya people in Burma that Muslims are vermin, everyone hates them and you sarcastically joked that watching news reports on ethnic cleansing there 'made you cry into your bacon sandwich'. Apologies if I don't buy your crocodile tears for Gazans now that it's become convenient for you to mention them.

We have already had a conversation about Trump and democracy, in which I stated that he got 3 million fewer votes than Clinton and counting votes for other candidates and write-ins, about 10 million more people voted against him than for him.

In that same conversation you denied then admitted being interested in foreign politics, denied then admitted supporting Trump. We could do it all again if you want but it would be farcical to say the least.

I agree with your opening premise "I don't consider this to be a sensible discussion" and your closing comment "We could do it all again if you want but it would be farcical to say the least."

It has become apparent that no matter how much info I present, you somehow think that I am evading the question.

You mention the Burma issue, I explain the difference between there and Palestine....you don't like my answer, so start waffling about bacon sandwiches.

You once again slag off Trump (who received praise from Sky today, for forcing the North Koreans to the negotiating table), I tell you that he was lawfully elected as the US President...you tell me got fewer votes, tough luck, Democracy wins.....not my problem.

You say I am wrong to say that the West supports Israel by selling them weapons....you say that is irrelevant.....difference of opinion.

No, I think it is a waste of time to start a different thread...you clearly do not agree with my views on a range of subjects...I respect your right to air your views and I will expect the same courtesy in the future

[drillerpie]

The info you present is totally random. Maps of Israel and the occupied territories since 1947 - even if I didn't know that already, it has no relevance on the thread.

I would have preferred some more detail on your idea that one country can legitimately invade another country as long as they speak the same language or used to be part of the same empire, rather than totally irrelevant maps of Israel.

Israel / Palestine is an argument of convenience for you, you strongly support the repression of Muslims.

Trump supports Israel, do you have a problem with Israel? Great, so you have a problem with Trump. Accept it.

'The West supporting Israel' and 'the West supporting Israeli snipers shooting children' are two totally different concepts. Again, debating with you is totally pointless.

You won't start different threads about these points you raise because you don't care about them, you just bring them up to deflect from criticism of Putin.

[tarquinbeech]

The info you present is totally random. Maps of Israel and the occupied territories since 1947 - even if I didn't know that already, it has no relevance on the thread.

I would have preferred some more detail on your idea that one country can legitimately invade another country as long as they speak the same language or used to be part of the same empire, rather than totally irrelevant maps of Israel.

Israel / Palestine is an argument of convenience for you, you strongly support the repression of Muslims.

Trump supports Israel, do you have a problem with Israel? Great, so you have a problem with Trump. Accept it.

'The West supporting Israel' and 'the West supporting Israeli snipers shooting children' are two totally different concepts. Again, debating with you is totally pointless.

You won't start different threads about these points you raise because you don't care about them, you just bring them up to deflect from criticism of Putin.

"Maps of Israel and the occupied territories since 1947 - even if I didn't know that already, it has no relevance on the thread."...Of course it has a relevance if the same countries that criticise Putin for taking back ex-Soviet strategic areas where he feels threatened by NATO also then invade IRAQ, bomb LIBYA into a rubble, sanction proxy militias in SYRIA, invade AFGHANISTAN and sell arms to ISRAEL who use those weapons to steal yet even more land off the PALESTINIANS, and huge quantities of arms to Saudi who flatten YEMEN.........you cannot have it both ways, either Putin is a bully-boy and needs to leave Crimea and Donbass OR the West has to stop stomping around the middle-east overturning every government that does not fit into their idea of a Democracy.

"Israel / Palestine is an argument of convenience for you, you strongly support the repression of Muslims."....Repression?....did you make that bit up?.....If they do not want to fit in with 21st century ideals and beliefs, free speech, equality of women, secular religion, treatment of gays....then let them live in their own countries and practise what they want, do not try to export their ancient ideas to enlightened countries....plus I strongly suggest that the West stop bombing them....let them get on with "enjoying" their medieval beliefs.

"Trump supports Israel, do you have a problem with Israel? Great, so you have a problem with Trump. Accept it."...Yawn, we are back on this old chestnut.....I do not particularly like Trump, he is a caricature, a cartoon character BUT he was elected in the World's most powerful democracy.....the USA send billions in arms to Israel because they make huge profits. Every president before him has done the same, along with the UK governments. I cannot stop it, I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of them knocking Putin on the one hand but supporting Israel and Saudi in their wars by selling them weapons.....and directly invading other countries when they deem it relevant....as I said previously, pot, kettle, black.

"The West supporting Israel' and 'the West supporting Israeli snipers shooting children' are two totally different concepts. Again, debating with you is totally pointless."....Again a difference of opinion. Selling arms to a country that is clearly in violation of basic human rights and decency, and that steal Arab lands with compulsory eviction notices is not irrelevant and I fail to see why you cannot spot the connection....night sights, drones, listening devices, guided missiles, all these were listed in the UK government licences for export to Israel.

ps...if this is "totally pointless" then why do you keep typing?

Edit - I have things to do for the rest of today, I have been trying to capture a wild bee swarm for 2 days now without success and now that the sun is high, it is the best time to track them and try to get them in a hive.....irrelevant info I know, but I did not want you thinking I am "running away"

[drillerpie]

The first point is easy: Putin shouldn't do bad things and the West shouldn't do bad things. But seeing as when we discuss the problems in European or North American countries we talk about them in detail, in isolation from what's happening in Russia, and nobody refuses to enter into the detail citing Russian hypocrisy, I don't see why we can't can't talk about Russia without people trying to deflect any attention by talking about Western hypocrisy.

I said you support the repression of Muslims because you have previously written on here that: you support the Burmese army's actions against the Rohingya, you support Chinese army's actions in its Muslim regions, you support dictators in Islamic countries because you don't think they are advanced enough to have democracy. I stand by my claim.

You seem very conflicted about Trump. You have written on here before that you would've voted for him because of his Muslim ban. He's your guy. Obama stopped using the Security Council veto to help Israel, Trump started using it again and spoke about moving the US embassy to Jerusalem to snub the Palestinians. He will back Israel to the hilt, and he's your guy, so don't take it out on me if you made a an error of judgement.

The West supporting Israel and the West supporting Israeli snipers shooting children are two different sentences, it's not a a matter of interpretation. Plenty of western countries abstain or vote against Israel at the UN, but the US bails them out with their veto.

I keep typing because I dislike your strategy of continually changing the subject. Any sign of you being able to rationalise your comments about it being ok to invade ex colonies or are we just going to pretend that never happened?

[andy6025]

Quite an interesting piece of blatant Russophobia from the Guardian. Luckily we know it's all made up because Russia recently saved the world from Ukrainian fascism and Putin is nice to animals.


https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...gans-world-cup

Adding in 'Putin is nice to animals' is also random.