Dead Fish Eyes , Nottingham Forest And The Current Situation ?

[animallittle3]

It's said the club moved to it's present recruitment policy after the club were last relegated under Danny Wilson in 2014 .

The story goes that Pat Cryne came in to the dressing room before the game against Notts Forest and did a Churchillian speech to rouse the troops .

What he received back according to legend were blank looks , players yawning and Dead Fish Eyes attitudes .

Fair enough , it would be enough to change my way of recruiting too if I'd entered the dressing room and left bewildered and saddened by that reaction .

The thing is we seem to have the same problem today , it's just the group is younger .


Passionless and lack of fight were in evidence at the City Ground on tuesday evening , our game in hand and an opportunity to lift ourselves out of the drop zone with two games to go , you might say if you can't get motivated for a game of this importance then why are you even playing pro football ?

Where's your pride ?

Your responsibility to yourself , the club and the fans ?

This isn't a pro Hecky post because he's got a hand in our demise too but the players short of ability as they were never jacked it up for him as I ever read or saw myself .

The appointment of the new HC seems to have taken the club back 4 years and destroyed the spirit within 12 weeks .

Things seem to have come to a head as they did 4 years ago against the very same club , a line in the sand moment in my opinion .

Danny Wilson lost the dressing room and this guy has too .

My point is this , unless the HC commands respect , isn't continuously undermined by the suits upstairs and has a solid record and methods on the training field then any plan you roll out will fail with the players of today .

The HC character and role needs to change and he needs more control , he's the man , not Billy Beane and certainly not Goat Hair or James Cryne .

He tells them what he wants , what needs to happen , who he brings in etc etc , he lives and he dies by that narrative .

The ownership have bought the club in my opinion based on the plan , but for christ's sake if it's to continue then let's have someone with the right credentials to deliver it .

League one presents an opportunity to take stock , learn some lessons , the plan's got merits but needs changes too or it fails .

Let's have Beane and his team replaced by people with a solid football background , let's give a HC more control , solid background that commands respect and one or two experienced pro's the younger one's can look up to .

If this doesn't happen over the summer then I fear for our ability to compete successfully in league one .

[bankendbfc]

It's said the club moved to it's present recruitment policy after the club were last relegated under Danny Wilson in 2014 .

The story goes that Pat Cryne came in to the dressing room before the game against Notts Forest and did a Churchillian speech to rouse the troops .

What he received back according to legend were blank looks , players yawning and Dead Fish Eyes attitudes .

Fair enough , it would be enough to change my way of recruiting too if I'd entered the dressing room and left bewildered and saddened by that reaction .

The thing is we seem to have the same problem today , it's just the group is younger .


Passionless and lack of fight were in evidence at the City Ground on tuesday evening , our game in hand and an opportunity to lift ourselves out of the drop zone with two games to go , you might say if you can't get motivated for a game of this importance then why are you even playing pro football ?

Where's your pride ?

Your responsibility to yourself , the club and the fans ?

This isn't a pro Hecky post because he's got a hand in our demise too but the players short of ability as they were never jacked it up for him as I ever read or saw myself .

The appointment of the new HC seems to have taken the club back 4 years and destroyed the spirit within 12 weeks .

Things seem to have come to a head as they did 4 years ago against the very same club , a line in the sand moment in my opinion .

Danny Wilson lost the dressing room and this guy has too .

My point is this , unless the HC commands respect , isn't continuously undermined by the suits upstairs and has a solid record and methods on the training field then any plan you roll out will fail with the players of today .

The HC character and role needs to change and he needs more control , he's the man , not Billy Beane and certainly not Goat Hair or James Cryne .

He tells them what he wants , what needs to happen , who he brings in etc etc , he lives and he dies by that narrative .

The ownership have bought the club in my opinion based on the plan , but for christ's sake if it's to continue then let's have someone with the right credentials to deliver it .

League one presents an opportunity to take stock , learn some lessons , the plan's got merits but needs changes too or it fails .

Let's have Beane and his team replaced by people with a solid football background , let's give a HC more control , solid background that commands respect and one or two experienced pro's the younger one's can look up to .

If this doesn't happen over the summer then I fear for our ability to compete successfully in league one .

Well said. The guy chanced his way into the job off the back on a name drop. Not got the minerals. Can't get the respect of kids.

[animallittle3]

Well said. The guy chanced his way into the job off the back on a name drop. Not got the minerals. Can't get the respect of kids.

It's not gone un-noticed by animal that since we returned to recruiting from the lower end of continental football the same old problems have re-occurred as well as some other worrying factors .

[SBRed48]

Spot on Animal burra fear fans like thee and me who think like this are now seen as dinosaurs. The idea of a bloke with experience and football knowledge being told by an owner "Here's thi budget fo transfers and wages. Identify the players tha wants in and art and tha stands and falls by thi decisions" is now old hat. So is the idea of "scouting", looking at players on a wet Tuesday neet when tha 2-0 darn, Who is still running their b0ll0cks off and not giving up? Nar it's much "smarter" to spot them on a spreadsheet and watch them scooar on a video.
With these owners knowing nowt abart football and evving little interest in the game, instead delegating to people who ev little knowledge of the Championship/League One I fear for the future. I fear a load of second rate continental players will roll in ovva the summer who will struggle in League One.
Tha nivva knows though. Brentford might be full of nerves tomorra and we sneak a 1-0, similarly at Derby.

[pass_and_move]

It's said the club moved to it's present recruitment policy after the club were last relegated under Danny Wilson in 2014 .

The story goes that Pat Cryne came in to the dressing room before the game against Notts Forest and did a Churchillian speech to rouse the troops .

What he received back according to legend were blank looks , players yawning and Dead Fish Eyes attitudes .

Fair enough , it would be enough to change my way of recruiting too if I'd entered the dressing room and left bewildered and saddened by that reaction .

The thing is we seem to have the same problem today , it's just the group is younger .


Passionless and lack of fight were in evidence at the City Ground on tuesday evening , our game in hand and an opportunity to lift ourselves out of the drop zone with two games to go , you might say if you can't get motivated for a game of this importance then why are you even playing pro football ?

Where's your pride ?

Your responsibility to yourself , the club and the fans ?

This isn't a pro Hecky post because he's got a hand in our demise too but the players short of ability as they were never jacked it up for him as I ever read or saw myself .

The appointment of the new HC seems to have taken the club back 4 years and destroyed the spirit within 12 weeks .

Things seem to have come to a head as they did 4 years ago against the very same club , a line in the sand moment in my opinion .

Danny Wilson lost the dressing room and this guy has too .

My point is this , unless the HC commands respect , isn't continuously undermined by the suits upstairs and has a solid record and methods on the training field then any plan you roll out will fail with the players of today .

The HC character and role needs to change and he needs more control , he's the man , not Billy Beane and certainly not Goat Hair or James Cryne .

He tells them what he wants , what needs to happen , who he brings in etc etc , he lives and he dies by that narrative .

The ownership have bought the club in my opinion based on the plan , but for christ's sake if it's to continue then let's have someone with the right credentials to deliver it .

League one presents an opportunity to take stock , learn some lessons , the plan's got merits but needs changes too or it fails .

Let's have Beane and his team replaced by people with a solid football background , let's give a HC more control , solid background that commands respect and one or two experienced pro's the younger one's can look up to .

If this doesn't happen over the summer then I fear for our ability to compete successfully in league one .

Good post & I agree Animal. Middle ground has to be reached if we are to get this club back on the straight and narrow. I think the plan has its merits too but for me the recruitment people have to be footballing professionals and work with a manager rather than a head coach. The club has proven that signing young hungry footballers can be successful both on and off the field as equally they've proven that it can be our downfall. We've encountered some serious stumbling blocks along the way by adopting this plan. The departures in jan 2017 left us reeling, the departures of the rest of that team last summer put the final nail in the coffin so to speak.

We must learn from these experiences and let it not happen again. The turnover in the summer proved to be too big a overhaul. The club kept its principles in signing youth but to our detriment. With the amount of turnover in players last summer we needed some old heads in to help settle these lads into Championship football.

In all honesty I find it remarkable that we're still in with a chance with two games to go. How we ent done a Rotherham this season I don't know. Key for me is that lessons need learning and a few tweaks are needed to get Mr Crynes masterplan back on track. if we can make those adjustments then I see no reason why we cant be relatively successful

[animallittle3]

Spot on Animal burra fear fans like thee and me who think like this are now seen as dinosaurs. The idea of a bloke with experience and football knowledge being told by an owner "Here's thi budget fo transfers and wages. Identify the players tha wants in and art and tha stands and falls by thi decisions" is now old hat. So is the idea of "scouting", looking at players on a wet Tuesday neet when tha 2-0 darn, Who is still running their b0ll0cks off and not giving up? Nar it's much "smarter" to spot them on a spreadsheet and watch them scooar on a video.
With these owners knowing nowt abart football and evving little interest in the game, instead delegating to people who ev little knowledge of the Championship/League One I fear for the future. I fear a load of second rate continental players will roll in ovva the summer who will struggle in League One.
Tha nivva knows though. Brentford might be full of nerves tomorra and we sneak a 1-0, similarly at Derby.

This is the thing isn't it SB , the components that make or complete football teams are only identifiable to smart , experienced football people .

A million quid to Leeds United for Eric Cantona was all it took to complete Man Utd , most observers laughed at it .

John McGovern was the glue in Forest's midfield that delivered 2 european cups and a league title , nobody else would have bought him and neither would they have bought centre half Kenny Burns from Birmingham City .

Ray McHale completed the magnificent Barnsley midfield of the early 80's .

Nobody wanted Paul Wilkinson or Neil Thompson in 1996 either , past it apparently .

Darren Moore was slow and past the age of 30 , he was a rock in my opinion and we stopped conceding goals from corners and set pieces and stayed up .

Unless you have a high end budget recruiting needs football brains behind it , the HC's style of play requires the personnel to deliver that system , Matty Appleby in a back four ? , never going to work , in a three , all day long so we bought him .

What you don't do is recruit a patchwork quilt of players then leave the HC scratching his head trying to figure out how to fit them in , which is clearly what's happened this season .

[animallittle3]

A challenge to the club .

Get me interested again in paying out £25 to go to a game when I'm not working .

Get me out of my armchair and wanting to go .

I don't actually care what league we are in , give me a reason why I should support your project .

I'm at an age where it's in my blood , I'm a fan and local doesn't wash anymore .

Over to you .

[Ponte_Steve24]

A challenge to the club .

Get me interested again in paying out £25 to go to a game when I'm not working .

Get me out of my armchair and wanting to go .

I don't actually care what league we are in , give me a reason why I should support your project .

I'm at an age where it's in my blood , I'm a fan and local doesn't wash anymore .

Over to you .

Follow the naked Indian Animal

[Hodger1957]

Same for me.
I can't summon up the enthusiasm to fill my car up, and drive for 2 hours to watch what's being served up.
Leaving the house at 12 and not getting home 'til 7 is a big chunk out of the weekend if there's no excitement on the pitch.

[Ponte_Steve24]

Same for me.
I can't summon up the enthusiasm to fill my car up, and drive for 2 hours to watch what's being served up.
Leaving the house at 12 and not getting home 'til 7 is a big chunk out of the weekend if there's no excitement on the pitch.

I summon it up for 45 minutes then Strongbow beckons. I think it's football in general Hodger. I read a post of yours on another thread and it applies to me too. I very rarely watch football now including Match of The Day and have found other things to do on a saturday. Me and Laura have renewed but unless they're playing scintillating stuff we won't be attending every match and even when we do. There have been times where if it's a sh1t game which has been most of this season even at just a goal down or 0-0 I've got bored and I or we've p1ssed off at half time.