OT - Local elections

[seriouspie]

How can you decide what you actually want to achieve, when you are unsure how much the enemy will concede?
You should go in with no deal on the table and show them you are strong. All this yellow/hollow backed obstructions from snowflakes, gives the EU encouragement and weakens your hand.
You have obviously never played poker and we shouldn't give them an Inch. We owe them nothing.
To compromise/give away more is what they want/need.
1. need our cash
2. want free movement
3. want control over your trade
4. want control over your laws

Give in on those and they know, the EU will start to break up. There is a lot of unhappy bunnies in Europe, be it over money or immigration.
They know their very existence is on the table.
Tell them once only, either deal sensibly, or **** off.

The last line so very true

It makes me laugh TTR how some on this board criticise our negotiating team. I've forgotten how many times I've said it but their very comments show they've never negotiated anything in big time business in their lives. Naturally they can voice an opinion but it's without experience.

I said a few weeks ago that Corbyn was finished ..... which he will be within a year when the Labour party wake up to the fact middle England and the great silent majority don't want this unkempt, protesting Marxist Tw@t and his cohorts even being considered as the mainstay of a future government. I'm over the moon this Russian, IRA loving idiot is and has, been the main reason TM has survived, when a creditable opposition would have destroyed her.

The lady will successfully get us out of the EU, the Customs Union & the single market as it stands. Whatever any revised arrangements are agreed, we will control our money, borders, Law and trade. She will then graciously stand down and a successor groomed in time for the next GE. TM will not go down as one of our finest PM's but she will go down as a person who persevered and backed the will of a democratic vote as promised.

[jackal2]

As usual, all very well argued. But pretty much none of it backed up by facts.

Well obviously this is an opinions board and it's my opinion. You presumably have a different one, but I don't see any facts in your single sentence.

(I would argue) there appears to be some correlation between the degree of polarisation between the parties and the level of turnout. There was a big turnout in 1997 when people decided that they wanted to oust a tired Government, but clearly neither Tony Blair nor the various Conservative Leaders thereafter inspired people to enthusiastically support or oppose them, because there was a huge drop in turnout in the 00's compared with 1997 and the 70s and 80s when (I would argue) the parties were more polarised and the key political leaders more ideological and distinctive, if not divisive. Some would argue that Hague in 2001 and Howard in 2005 offered a strong right-wing alternative but I beg to differ. Hague arrived at the top of his party too soon and his 'Keep The Pound' mantra was very superficial, while Howard (albeit having quite a strong ideology) was a spent force and quite clearly a short-term stop gap.

Turnout at the 2017 election was the highest since 1997. Even as a Tory I think the 2017 turnout was largely driven by those inspired to support, and those equally keen to stop, Jeremy Corbyn. There was no doubt that Corbyn was offering a much more radical alternative than previous opposition leaders, and it follows that if people really believe the outcome of an election could fundamentally change their lives, they are more likely to make the effort to vote.

Of course, the most polarising debate of all in recent years was the Brexit vote, which also saw a much higher turnout than the mean for recent times.

Yes it's an argument based on subjective opinion and interpretation, but I believe people are more inspired by politics when they have very distinct choices, ideally presented by politicians with conviction. And I believe there are controlling establishment forces in this country (and many others) who see their best interests served by preventing that scenario. They would prefer the public to have the Henry Ford choice of any car painted any colour you like, so long as it's black.

[Bohinen]

It's Corbyn whose costing the party power rather than his Brexit policy.

Only amongst LibDem supporters like yourself. The results were not actually that bad for Labour, and if projected to a general election, could give them a minority government with, say, the SNP.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-would-still-result-in-hung-parliament-house-of-commons-projection-shows-a3830936.html


The difficulty with the local elections was that hundreds of UKIP council seats were lost owing to the party's collapse and those votes surely went to the party those supporters agreed with on Brexit. Corbyn has courted these people by not opposing Brexit but the Blairites in the Labour Party and old liberals like yourself have told him he's wrong, ad nausuem. When that didn't work, you tried telling us he was meeting the wrong sort of Jew. Desperate stuff but quite convincing for those stupid enough not to see through it.

[seriouspie]

Based mainly on UKIP making themselves as popular and relevant as the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Yes ..... ex dissatisfied Tory voters returning to the fold now Nigel's job is done.

[Elite_Pie]

It makes me laugh TTR how some on this board criticise our negotiating team. I've forgotten how many times I've said it but their very comments show they've never negotiated anything in big time business in their lives. Naturally they can voice an opinion but it's without experience.

What a load of crap. So you know more about Brexit negotiations than the rest of us because you negotiated a few business deals? Laughable. Your predictions on how it will turn out are based entirely on what you desperately want to happen. I hate to break it to you, but that doesn't mean it will happen.

[Elite_Pie]

Yes ..... ex dissatisfied Tory voters returning to the fold now Nigel's job is done.

So if the voters from the 123 lost UKIP seats returned to the Tory party, how the f*ck did the Tories manage to LOSE seats???

Yet again, you are saying what you would like to have happened, even though there is not a shred of logical evidence that it did happen.

[seriouspie]

So if the voters from the 123 lost UKIP seats returned to the Tory party, how the f*ck did the Tories manage to LOSE seats???

Yet again, you are saying what you would like to have happened, even though there is not a shred of logical evidence that it did happen.

(a) Not a clue youth and couldn't care less ....... being satisfied with a result (like negotiations) is all that matters.

(b) Ditto

No me ode - I'll keep persecuting the poor working classes like a good Tory should. After all it was us toffee nosed Tories who usually started the businesses that gave the underclasses work wasn't it? Oh no, it couldn't have been because Tories aren't workers are they and don't know how. Are you still paying your Union subs now you're retired by the way like a good Socialist should? Who was it you laboured for...... Hicking Pentecost?

[Elite_Pie]

(a) Not a clue youth and couldn't care less

I know you haven't got a clue, I said as much earlier. Your posts are mainly about some fantasy land that doesn't exist.

Who was it you laboured for...... Hicking Pentecost?

No.

[seriouspie]

[QUOTE=Elite_Pie;38879613]I know you haven't got a clue, I said as much earlier. Your posts are mainly about some fantasy land that doesn't exist.

That is correct ....... mine can be compared to the dreams of Jeremy (needs a visit to the dentist's) Corbyn and his two fat female admirers that they'll ever lead Labour into power. The country apart from the sink estate scroungers just don't like them. Now if Benn ever pushed himself, I would get worried as brains then come into being and not shrieking nonsense.

[andy6025]

With all councils declared, Labour won 2,350 seats (55%) up 77, the Conservatives won 1,332 (32%) down 33, the Lib Dems won 536 (13%) up 75, the Greens won 39 (1%) up eight and UKIP won three (0.1%) down 123. [numbers surpass 100% due to rounding]

This is a clear victory for Labour.