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Thread: Just a thought

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthful View Post
    When Gordon Strachan was our manager, mainly in the early days, he’d be a ball of emotion and energy on the touchline. He’d often berate the officials, and it got to the point where he was pulled in front of the FA to be warned.

    The point is that he realised and knew that it was doing us no favours- referees were going into games knowing they were going to get an earful and it made them less inclined to give us any marginal/ 50% decisions- it put officials’ backs up right from the off. Strachan calmed down a lot after this, and whaddayaknow? More decisions our way, fewer controversial bookings/ sendings off, and a lesson learned.

    There is a way to conduct your business on the touchline and the way Nolan carries on will only mean more referees go into games mentally prepared to get abuse and tantrums, their backs will be up, and this can make the difference between getting decisions and not getting them. If you go into every game with a ref that knows they’re gonna get dogs abuse at every decision, and berated at every opportunity- firstly you’re gonna get a manager that is ignored cause the impact is lost, secondly you will not get the decisions you might, because the ref is already braced for getting an ear bashing.

    If you carry on bleating that all the officials at this level are garbage, a disgrace, are they ONLY reason you’re getting hammered in games- how much favour is that going to get you with referees?

    Would you be more inclined to listen to someone who screams and bawls at you all the time or someone who showed a level of restraint, professionalism and understanding?
    Hold on, so you are saying that referees, knowing that Nolan has a history of being vocal about how poor officiating is costing clubs in the lower leagues, will choose to deliberately give decisions against him, just to prove that he was right all along?

    If someone told you that you were **** at your job, would you a) ignore them, b) try a bit harder to show them you aren't **** at your job, or c) prove them right by being **** at your job? I'm fairly sure the answer is either a or b.

    Strange logic there mate.

    Also, the idea that you have to just sit there and take such incompetence is ridiculous. How will things ever change if nobody speaks out?
    Last edited by slack_pie; 21-05-2018 at 06:01 AM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by slack_pie View Post
    Hold on, so you are saying that referees, knowing that Nolan has a history of being vocal about how poor officiating is costing clubs in the lower leagues, will choose to deliberately give decisions against him, just to prove that he was right all along?

    If someone told you that you were **** at your job, would you a) ignore them, b) try a bit harder to show them you aren't **** at your job, or c) prove them right by being **** at your job? I'm fairly sure the answer is either a or b.

    Strange logic there mate.

    Also, the idea that you have to just sit there and take such incompetence is ridiculous. How will things ever change if nobody speaks out?
    I would agree with you if it was only one or two refs he moaned about but when it happens week after week they must take it on board. But it is not just managers who refs might be or not be biased against, players are also targeted imo. Stead gets fouled match after match but because he goes to ground easily the ref tends to ignore it, and some individuals with poor disciplinary records tend to get booked quicker than others for the same type of infringement.

  3. #13
    This is exactly my point.

    The refs will go into games with the mindset "don't be swayed by Nolan, he's gonna be at you all game". Do you think these things don't become a "thing"?

    I can't speak about Stead but its the same- "don't be giving that guy soft free kicks, he goes down easy"

    We've seen it many times- I guess all clubs have to a degree- if you get tagged as a moaning, complaining & "quick to claim everything" club, it can hurt you.

    There is a way to conduct yourself. Acting like you've just had a cattle prod in your backside- arms outstretched, screaming & shrieking, such a massive show of indignation- thats confrontational right off the bat.

    Better to get a bit of credibility, then try to influence in a calmer way- you'll get way more going for you that way.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthful View Post
    This is exactly my point.

    The refs will go into games with the mindset "don't be swayed by Nolan, he's gonna be at you all game". Do you think these things don't become a "thing"?

    I can't speak about Stead but its the same- "don't be giving that guy soft free kicks, he goes down easy"

    We've seen it many times- I guess all clubs have to a degree- if you get tagged as a moaning, complaining & "quick to claim everything" club, it can hurt you.

    There is a way to conduct yourself. Acting like you've just had a cattle prod in your backside- arms outstretched, screaming & shrieking, such a massive show of indignation- thats confrontational right off the bat.

    Better to get a bit of credibility, then try to influence in a calmer way- you'll get way more going for you that way.
    So the fact that Nolan has complained about bad decisions in the past will actually make referees deliberately give decisions the wrong way, just to wind him up even more? If that really is the standard of officiating, shouldn't we be demanding something better and more professional?

  5. #15
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    I hear Nolan is actually considered ok by officials, apparently the 4th officials can have a conversation with him and he will listen (unlike the Cowley brothers or Sean Derry interestingly ). The LMA have asked for a stepped approach to managerial behaviour. So for example kicking a water bottle might have got you sent to the stands in the past, but now it's included in a totting up procedure.

    Going back to refs, I think the pool they have to pick from is so small, the standard is inevitably low. The abuse received at even the lowest level is terrible and many people who would be excellent refs just pack up due to it. If that stopped, more people might come through. Also, even at non league level, the time commitment is huge, lots of travelling long distances is involved and the rewards are tiny - a linesman might get £30 + expenses at 3 levels below the FL. How many people would bother really? The best refs are those who are good at managing people, so probably have decent full time jobs; only a few of them will carry on up the ladder to the FL.

    My husband is considered a really good official (allegedly!) having won loads of awards voted for every season by the clubs he officiates at (that's not boasting BTW, just setting a scene). Despite that, he has had a death threat, been physically threatened, and regularly called a cheat, or even a cheating c*** and is routinely subjected to the kind of abuse that would have most people on Mad in a mass brawl.

    That's the stuff which needs sorting first to get the good refs coming through and not just packing in.
    Last edited by cher1; 22-05-2018 at 09:22 AM.

  6. #16
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    Freds like this are the best thing about MAD and thanks for the personal angle, Cher. Thanks also to Truthful for creating a dialogue that has been well-argued and non-abusive.
    I would be interested to hear from Pies4U who has extensive knowledge re refs and, because I can't get to home games, can Notts fans tell me whether Kevin is regularly confrontational with refs.
    In my own reffing career I got as high as Northern League level and found that one of the things holding refs back was poor paperwork. If you can't articulate effectively about contentious incidents you will never climb up the ladder because you could prove a liability at any tribunals.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidders View Post
    Freds like this are the best thing about MAD and thanks for the personal angle, Cher. Thanks also to Truthful for creating a dialogue that has been well-argued and non-abusive.
    I would be interested to hear from Pies4U who has extensive knowledge re refs and, because I can't get to home games, can Notts fans tell me whether Kevin is regularly confrontational with refs.
    In my own reffing career I got as high as Northern League level and found that one of the things holding refs back was poor paperwork. If you can't articulate effectively about contentious incidents you will never climb up the ladder because you could prove a liability at any tribunals.
    He tends to have a go at the 4th official fairly often and has fallen out with the odd opposition manager, was it Nolan and Derry that squared up to eachother or Derry and someone else?

    He was going mad at the referee at the Cov game because he was recieving word from the analyst (via Crossley's earpiece) at the top of the Pavis that the decisions were incorrect, he asked straight away and then flipped when he found out.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthful View Post
    This is exactly my point.

    The refs will go into games with the mindset "don't be swayed by Nolan, he's gonna be at you all game".
    Refs shouldn't be swayed by anyone other than their assistants

  9. #19
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    [B][QUOTE=sidders;38898642]Freds like this are the best thing about MAD and thanks for the personal angle, Cher. Thanks also to Truthful for creating a dialogue that has been well-argued and non-abusive.
    I would be interested to hear from Pies4U who has extensive knowledge re refs and, because I can't get to home games, can Notts fans tell me whether Kevin is regularly confrontational with refs.


    Hilarious, coming from you, unbelievable double standards, I'll remind you what you wrote last night, you probably remeber nothing after 8pm each night 'What a plank you are' totally without provocation.

    You then went on to say you were reporting me after I retaliated with 'absolute tosser' and that I was 'under investigation' after the lengthy thread in which you claimed you'd 'never' report anyone, class
    Last edited by Airborn Pie; 22-05-2018 at 01:09 PM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidders View Post
    Freds like this are the best thing about MAD and thanks for the personal angle, Cher. Thanks also to Truthful for creating a dialogue that has been well-argued and non-abusive.
    I would be interested to hear from Pies4U who has extensive knowledge re refs and, because I can't get to home games, can Notts fans tell me whether Kevin is regularly confrontational with refs.
    In my own reffing career I got as high as Northern League level and found that one of the things holding refs back was poor paperwork. If you can't articulate effectively about contentious incidents you will never climb up the ladder because you could prove a liability at any tribunals.
    Bloody hell Sid, how old ARE you? You have had virtually every job available. How far up Everest did you get?

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