Just a thought

[Truthful]

When Gordon Strachan was our manager, mainly in the early days, he’d be a ball of emotion and energy on the touchline. He’d often berate the officials, and it got to the point where he was pulled in front of the FA to be warned.

The point is that he realised and knew that it was doing us no favours- referees were going into games knowing they were going to get an earful and it made them less inclined to give us any marginal/ 50% decisions- it put officials’ backs up right from the off. Strachan calmed down a lot after this, and whaddayaknow? More decisions our way, fewer controversial bookings/ sendings off, and a lesson learned.

There is a way to conduct your business on the touchline and the way Nolan carries on will only mean more referees go into games mentally prepared to get abuse and tantrums, their backs will be up, and this can make the difference between getting decisions and not getting them. If you go into every game with a ref that knows they’re gonna get dogs abuse at every decision, and berated at every opportunity- firstly you’re gonna get a manager that is ignored cause the impact is lost, secondly you will not get the decisions you might, because the ref is already braced for getting an ear bashing.

If you carry on bleating that all the officials at this level are garbage, a disgrace, are they ONLY reason you’re getting hammered in games- how much favour is that going to get you with referees?

Would you be more inclined to listen to someone who screams and bawls at you all the time or someone who showed a level of restraint, professionalism and understanding?

[jackal2]

Football referees are a bit like school teachers, in that footballers and managers, or in the latter case kids, are for some reason expected to give them unquestioning respect and order. Personally, I've always thought that's a dangerous concept.

Surely, you should earn respect, as did exceptional referees like Pierluigi Collina, who rarely had to argue with players or managers because they acknowledged he was basically very good at his job. Likewise, the best teachers at school very rarely had to raise their voice, because kids saw and respected their ability and good intentions and didn't have any desire to mess them about.

If you find your decisions or instructions constantly being challenged, and if you constantly need to hide behind disciplinary procedures to enforce your authority, the chances are you're pretty rubbish at what you do, and not particularly worthy of any respect.

[tarquinbeech]

......been married 4 times, I get rid of the ones that bawl and scream....now I am stuck with number 5, strapped to a bed with broken ankles and a pistol to my head....HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP

[Truthful]

Mourinho is getting challenged all over the place

Is he ****e as his job?

[jackal2]

Mourinho is getting challenged all over the place

Is he ****e as his job?

Actually Mourinho is comparatively rarely challenged. He tends to challenge others, including his own players, who generally listen to him (even if they don't initially welcome the criticism) because he passes the "show us your medals" test. He can point to his phenomenally successful career and say "THAT's why you should respect my opinion".

The football authorities obviously discipline Mourinho for challenging them from time to time, but they use those mechanical in-built sanctions from a position of weakness, because most of them cannot point to anything in their career history even remotely worthy of earning the respect.

True authority comes from tangible achievement.

[Truthful]

Is that why Nolan has no authority to influence the officials then?

The point remains- if you get a reputation as a mouthy so & so who will claim everything and scream blue murder at every decision, unless you’ve got a full trophy cabinet at home it ain’t gonna do you any favours at all.

[jackal2]

Is that why Nolan has no authority to influence the officials then?

The point remains- if you get a reputation as a mouthy so & so who will claim everything and scream blue murder at every decision, unless you’ve got a full trophy cabinet at home it ain’t gonna do you any favours at all.

Nolan has played at the top level domestically for many years, several leagues higher than some of these referees have ever operated, and will have seen the standards of refereeing at Premier League level at close hand, so he's arguably better qualified to judge the performance of most of these lower level refs than either they (and in some cases perhaps even their assessors!) are.

I can see your point that shouting at incompetents is perhaps likely to make them react defensively and exaggerate that incompetency, but it must be very frustrating being told what you can and can't do by someone who hasn't operated close to the level you've achieved.

Earlier this season, Premier League ref Mike Jones came to referee our home game against Swansea in the FA Cup, and his command of the game was such a stunning improvement on what we're normally used to seeing that many fans went home talking about how good the ref was. And that doesn't happen often. I can barely remember Jones putting a foot wrong in 90 minutes, and unsurprisingly both managers were very calm throughout a very exciting game.

[tarquinbeech]

Nolan has played at the top level domestically for many years, several leagues higher than some of these referees have ever operated, and will have seen the standards of refereeing at Premier League level at close hand, so he's arguably better qualified to judge the performance of most of these lower level refs than either they (and in some cases perhaps even their assessors!) are.

I can see your point that shouting at incompetents is perhaps likely to make them react defensively and exaggerate that incompetency, but it must be very frustrating being told what you can and can't do by someone who hasn't operated close to the level you've achieved.

Earlier this season, Premier League ref Mike Jones came to referee our home game against Swansea in the FA Cup, and his command of the game was such a stunning improvement on what we're normally used to seeing that many fans went home talking about how good the ref was. And that doesn't happen often. I can barely remember Jones putting a foot wrong in 90 minutes, and unsurprisingly both managers were very calm throughout.

....but the point still remains Jackal....is it possible that refs have now got wind of Nolo's screaming abuse, and are less inclined to give us decisions, and possibly, just possibly, deliberately rule against us?....genuine question, and one I have pondered a few times.

Think chubby, screaming Fat Evans....nobody remotely likes the guy.

[jackal2]

....but the point still remains Jackal....is it possible that refs have now got wind of Nolo's screaming abuse, and are less inclined to give us decisions, and possibly, just possibly, deliberately rule against us?....genuine question, and one I have pondered a few times.

Think chubby, screaming Fat Evans....nobody remotely likes the guy.

My central point was that respect in life should be earned rather than demanded by unworthy people who rely on a false hierarchical structure.

As I've said above, I do see the point Truthful and yourself are making and it would probably need some considerable analysis to determine whether the complainers get more decisions for or against them.

On face value, the aforementioned Mourinho and Sir Alex Ferguson are/were notorious for losing their rag with officials, as are Neil Warnock and Steve Evans, but all four of those managers are either extremely or relatively successful in winning trophies or getting teams promoted, so perhaps putting pressure on the officials actually gets you a few more decisions if measured over a long period of time (rather than one game against Coventry in Nolan's case).

At the opposite end of the spectrum you could say Brian Clough was also very successful and was well recognised for almost never criticising referees, so did that work for him or not? Would Roger Milford have sent off Paul Gascoigne in the 1991 FA Cup Final, as he should have, if the Forest players and manager had surrounded him and put him under pressure to do so?

It's a difficult question to answer, with evidence either way. Personally, I think managers each have their own personalities on the touchline and their success or failure over time probably isn't fundamentally determined by their effect on officials.

[tarquinbeech]

My central point was that respect in life should be earned rather than demanded by unworthy people who rely on a false hierarchical structure.

As I've said above, I do see the point Truthful and yourself are making and it would probably need some considerable analysis to determine whether the complainers get more decisions for or against them.

On face value, the aforementioned Mourinho and Sir Alex Ferguson are/were notorious for losing their rag with officials, as are Neil Warnock and Steve Evans, but all four of those managers are either extremely or relatively successful in winning trophies or getting teams promoted, so perhaps putting pressure on the officials actually gets you a few more decisions if measured over a long period of time (rather than one game against Coventry in Nolan's case).

At the opposite end of the spectrum you could say Brian Clough was also very successful and was well recognised for almost never criticising referees, so did that work for him or not? Would Roger Milford have sent off Paul Gascoigne in the 1991 FA Cup Final, as he should have, if the Forest players and manager had surrounded him and put him under pressure to do so?

It's a difficult question to answer, with evidence either way. Personally, I think managers each have their own personalities on the touchline and their success or failure over time probably isn't fundamentally determined by their effect on officials.

Good point Jackal....we will wait and see if Nolo earns the respect of refs instead of berating them for possible errors...time will tell