OT: Ireland about to repeal the 8th?

[Airborn Pie]

As someone who's had a few of my fetuses aborted, I couldn't recommend it more highly!

When you're ready to have a child, by all means pop 'em out as you like.

Until then abortion is a safe and effective means of ensuring your spunk don't put you in the funk.

That's flippant and disgusting

[AltyPie]

No, I wouldn't. If Ireland voted Yes, it would show that religion was no longer the guiding principle for important decisions and a recognition that Rome's power was less than say 50 years ago. If you're asking me whether it required a two-thirds majority for change then I would say that is Ireland's business. Brexit affects everything within the state. The right to abortion, whilst a matter of life and death, paradoxically doesn't.

So your previous criteria have been this:
1st, state that a “Major Constitutional Change” should require a 2/3 majority. You made no mention of whether it was by referendum.
I have asked you about the Lisbon Treaty which did not go through on 2/3 majority. I don’t exactly recall your get-out for this, but nope, your “principle” didn’t apply in this case.
Brexit - for some reason there’s no doubt this IS a “Major Constitutional Change” on planet Sid and should NOT have been passed.
Now we come to the repeal of the 8th Amendment to the Irish Constitution. Well, we now discover that REPEALING AN AMENDMENT is somehow not a “Major Constitutional Change” and therefore doesn’t require a 2/3 majority on planet Sid.

I’m beginning to see a pattern with things that do and do not qualify as “Major Constitutional Changes” requiring your 2/3 majority. Perhaps the readers can too.

[AltyPie]

No, I wouldn't. If Ireland voted Yes, it would show that religion was no longer the guiding principle for important decisions and a recognition that Rome's power was less than say 50 years ago. If you're asking me whether it required a two-thirds majority for change then I would say that is Ireland's business. Brexit affects everything within the state. The right to abortion, whilst a matter of life and death, paradoxically doesn't.

A question on your post:
You write, “The right to abortion, whilst a matter of life and death...”

Just whose “death” are you referring to here?

[Airborn Pie]

A question on your post:
You write, “The right to abortion, whilst a matter of life and death...”

Just whose “death” are you referring to here?

I won't get too in to this emotive subject but the factual answer is the unborn child, anything else is speculation

For the record, I'm anti abortion, the miracle of life is to that little person, like having won the lottery and to have it snatched away, there should be some remarkable or tragic reasons other than 'I didn't want it' or 'it wasn't the right time for me'.

[ncfcog]

I won't get too in to this emotive subject but the factual answer is the unborn child, anything else is speculation

For the record, I'm anti abortion, the miracle of life is to that little person, like having won the lottery and to have it snatched away, there should be some remarkable or tragic reasons other than 'I didn't want it' or 'it wasn't the right time for me'.

And here lies the conundrum.

Suicide has become an alternative means of abortion, read 'X Case' in the article I posted in the original post. 14 year old rape victim, wanted to travel to the UK to have an abortion but was stopped by the authorities after the parents asked for a DNA test after the abortion to prove the identity of the rapist. The girl became suicidal. It is about both the unborn child and the mother in cases like this.

[Airborn Pie]

And here lies the conundrum.

Suicide has become an alternative means of abortion, read 'X Case' in the article I posted in the original post. 14 year old rape victim, wanted to travel to the UK to have an abortion but was stopped by the authorities after the parents asked for a DNA test after the abortion to prove the identity of the rapist. The girl became suicidal. It is about both the unborn child and the mother in cases like this.

I agree but it's about the cild in 100% of cases

[ncfcog]

I agree but it's about the cild in 100% of cases

Correct, butto play devils advocate what about the women who was admitted to hospital in Ireland as she was miscarrying, she requests a termination on health grounds as she was miscarrying anyway. The doctors tell her she is in Ireland and they don't believe in abortion. She is left in her hospital bed, bleeding for 5 days and eventually dies of sepsis. Where's the logic in that?

[sidders]

ALTY says:
Well, we now discover that REPEALING AN AMENDMENT is somehow not a “Major Constitutional Change” and therefore doesn’t require a 2/3 majority on planet Sid.

Wrong. Planet Sid said this is a decision for those directly affected NOT for outside speculators.

[AltyPie]

ALTY says:
Well, we now discover that REPEALING AN AMENDMENT is somehow not a “Major Constitutional Change” and therefore doesn’t require a 2/3 majority on planet Sid.

Wrong. Planet Sid said this is a decision for those directly affected NOT for outside speculators.

Not really.
I asked “Would you call this a Major Constitutional Change.”
You answered, “No I would not.”

As I’ve described above, I think I know why you would not.
On the newly raised “outside speculators”, your 2/3 “principle” is proving to be contingent on all sorts of factors we weren’t forewarned about.

[Airborn Pie]

Correct, butto play devils advocate what about the women who was admitted to hospital in Ireland as she was miscarrying, she requests a termination on health grounds as she was miscarrying anyway. The doctors tell her she is in Ireland and they don't believe in abortion. She is left in her hospital bed, bleeding for 5 days and eventually dies of sepsis. Where's the logic in that?

In a miscarrige, the baby is usually, already dead so it wouldn't apply.

'Miscarriage, also known as spontaneous abortion and pregnancy loss, is the natural death of an embryo or fetus before it is able to survive independently'

There are so many variables, how old is the foetus, could it be safely delivered, doctors won't sit there and watch a woman die, the mother is always prioritised over the foetus / baby