OT For readers of the Gruniad

[Airborn Pie]

Almost. Savona (the would be finance minister) has said various times in the past that Italy would be better out of the euro and Mattarella (the head of state) refused to nominate him on the grounds that 1) during the election campaign Europe wasn't discussed much, and 2) when it was discussed, M5S went back on their old promise to leave the Eurozone.

Whether Mattarella did the right thing or not is debatable, both from a moral point of view (he has the legal power to refuse to nominate ministers but it's never been used before in this way) and a practical point of view (the markets have gone crazy anyway so he would've been better off just nominating him).

Far from blocking further discussion of the EU this will probably make it the number one topic of the forthcoming election campaign. Mattarella has not said that Italy cannot ever leave the EU, he's said they cannot do it without a full debate and without voters knowing exactly where the parties stand.

Looks like an attempt to stop a referendum to me, the Hos state is clearly worried that a referendum may be offered if this bloke got in and if it were, the Italians would vote to leave.?

[drillerpie]

Looks like an attempt to stop a referendum to me, the Hos state is clearly worried that a referendum may be offered if this bloke got in and if it were, the Italians would vote to leave.?

Even though that's pretty much the opposite of what Mattarella said in the speech to explain his decision?

Even though there will be fresh elections in September and Italians can vote for anti EU parties then if they want?

Even though M5S just got its best ever election result after toning down the anti EU rhetoric and saying it wanted to stay in?

Even though the minister who was vetoed has issued a press release saying he wanted to resolve Italy's problems from inside the EU, not leave it?

What is your opinion based on?

[Airborn Pie]

Even though that's pretty much the opposite of what Mattarella said in the speech to explain his decision?

Even though there will be fresh elections in September and Italians can vote for anti EU parties then if they want?

Even though M5S just got its best ever election result after toning down the anti EU rhetoric and saying it wanted to stay in?

Even though the minister who was vetoed has issued a press release saying he wanted to resolve Italy's problems from inside the EU, not leave it?

What is your opinion based on?

And what stops Mattarella, doing exactly the same thing until he gets an EU friendly arrangement that's to his liking?

My opinions are based on Mattarells's actions and possible motives, just like any others.

The blinkered view of some, that all is rosy in the EU and that the British are an aberration, is one of denial.

[drillerpie]

And what stops Mattarella, doing exactly the same thing until he gets an EU friendly arrangement that's to his liking?.

The fact that M5S could at any time propose another person as finance minister and get that person to enact exactly the same policies they were going to enact this time.

The fact that under Italian law you can have a referendum on constitutional change like leaving the EU without having a 2/3 majority in parliament. In fact, M5S and Lega could take Italy out of the EU with just an absolute majority in parliament, providing they won the ensuing referendum. Mattarella wouldn't have any say in the matter.

As for all being rosy in the EU, for the hard of thinking let me repeat what I said months ago on the matter, what Tarquin quoted just a short time a ago, yet some people seem unable to understand:


M5S spells trouble for the EU in a way because there are certain issues they want to change EU policy on (fiscal compact, immigration - although the outgoing Italian government has already changed that to a large extent, the problem now is deporting the ones who haven't been given refugee status - and some aspects of trade) but they want to resolve these problems from the inside rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Quite a sensible strategy in my view.

As you can see they are populists and they change their mind to suit what they think people will vote for (their policy on vaccines is a perfect example ) but at the moment the situation is as described above.


No denial, just a perfectly accurate analysis from me.

[MagpieTony]

As you can see they are populists and they change their mind to suit what they think people will vote for (their policy on vaccines is a perfect example ) but at the moment the situation is as described above.[/b]

Now now Driller. Have you not seen how the Labour party currently works.

[i961pie]

Now now Driller. Have you not seen how the Labour party currently works.