Would you sacrifice the naming rights

[AP69]

More than double the debt but with less than half the ambition
When the club is just a vessel for the advertising of his main interest the club will never achieve any of its potential
Don't need a sheiks investment just our multi billionaire to release some decent funds
If we don't get relegated the club won't need to borrow anymore from him
The debt has risen after the relegations and that is down to his running the club on a shoestring

He's got the manager to attract the right players


Back him properly and reap the rewards

[ghostrider]

As usual the truth and best path lies between the two extremes. There is another choice between spending next to nothing (as Ashley has done in the PL) and risking doing a Leeds.

I don´t think anyone is expecting us to go out and spend 120 million on new players, but to add 4 players to the first team at an average of 15 million each is surely not too much to ask considering the position we are in now. Villa, Mackems and many other clubs are on the defensive, financially, but we could be on the start of an upswing and Ashley is putting the club in danger of not making the most of the momenentum.

I agree we need to tweak.
Obviously (if he's staying) Ashley has to spend on better quality, but we have to make sure we don't tread a path that compromises the club in the longer term like the Villa's and the Sunderland's and other clubs are beginning to realise.
I'd be as peed off as anyone if we didn't spend..but I'd rather we spent on genuine potential, identified for sensible money than spend on players that appear to promise the Earth and deliver mud.

I'd love to have some big names playing for us.
I want what everyone else wants and hopes for but I also want to be safe in the knowledge that by getting what we want, we don't get it for 5 minutes and then suffer the consequences.

The major issue we all have is this basic top 6 elite that just seem to be able to right wrongs at the drop of a hat and suffer no effects.
I can see both sides of Ashley's stance.

Fans are notoriously impatient and it takes, even top managers, time to build a team. I´m prepared to wait but it´s essential that we now show signs of moving forwards with the squad.

I agree with that. I want managerial competence and stability.
Do we have it with Rafa?
I'm not 100% sure but I'd be fine for him to commit with the second half of the season mindset to roll along with.

The thing is I want a committed manager not a dictating employee, who plays the do this or else card.
Time will tell on the outcome, obviously.

I believe money will be made available if Ashley stays...but the books have to be balanced amid tweaking and there has to be an ongoing contingency plan.
Basically speaking...even with a manager like Rafa, we cannot put all our eggs into one basket.

[ghostrider]

More than double the debt but with less than half the ambition

There's no doubling of any debt.
The debt was left to him and he's took it on the chin.
As for ambition...anyone can be ambitious with other people's money.

When the club is just a vessel for the advertising of his main interest the club will never achieve any of its potential

All clubs are vessels for advertising. It just so happens that Ashley owns the business.
The advertising is just an excuse to make out Ashley's milking the club.
When you get a manager in on 100 grand a year and players on 5 grand a week...then you have a massive case against him milking the club.

Don't need a sheiks investment just our multi billionaire to release some decent funds

Correct we don't need a sheikh..we're doing ok as it is.....or do you mean we don't need a sheikh to play with the elite clubs in the champions league and/or go for the title.
Elaborate.

If we don't get relegated the club won't need to borrow anymore from him

He gave McClaren over 80 million. Does that seem like an owner who spends to get relegated?
Tish happens.

The debt has risen after the relegations and that is down to his running the club on a shoestring

It's bound to. Paying premier league wages for the returns of the championship is naturally going to affect finances....but Ashley took it all on the chin.
He righted his wrong, as he's always done.
He's been naive, stupid, stubborn...penny wise and pound foolish, just as much as he's been penny wise, only.
But he's always rectified errors.
If you want the truth from me as an opinion, I'd say Ashley is afraid to trust on a big scale.

He's got the manager to attract the right players

Maybe he has and maybe he hasn't.
It depends on players liking his style.

Back him properly and reap the rewards

Back anyone properly and reap the rewards. The issue is in what is properly?
Give Rafa Man City type money and he'll get many things right....but for me it's like handing a kid thousands of balls to knock off a number of coconuts off a stall when most people get a hand full.

[pboromag]

he has a manager to attract the right players
the players at real soon had him out so did the chelsea players
he has attracted
joselwho wourinho etc etc

we wouldnt give them away if we tried

nearly every player rafa has been linked with hasnt come
and we pay decent wages
not great but we do have a high wage bill

[pboromag]

ap has been active these last 2-3 days

[ghostrider]

ap has been active these last 2-3 days

[ronandtet]

ap has been active these last 2-3 days

that means what?

[toptoon]

with rafas recent history of signings
would you give him 50 mill

the truth is he has hamstrung us with a crock of ****e thathe brought in the summer

dubarnich the goalie is the only decent recent signingg he has made

the others we wont get our money back on and even rafa wont make them prem players

he needs to cler the decks and quick to get some money

he wasted hndreds of thousnads on the lad from leicester but sent mitro out on loan

sorry but getting rid of carr so quick is costing us

his players genrally made us money
yes we were a stepping stone team

but the same format with a supposed great manager like rafa and we could have seen more returns

ie what could or would have rafa got out of some of the good players carr brought in

he certainly hasbt developed any of his buys

No, I would give him 100 million if I could to spend but you miss the point. We are now stable financially and so it´s time to push on and try to win something. From your post you sound just like Ashley. Football´s not just about making money from players - it´s about winning.

We can argue all day about who Rafa has improved or not in the team ( Dummett, Shelvey, Lejeune, Perez.......Diame?) and how much they are worth now compared to at the beginning of last season but that´s not the point. It´s a results business and we were promoted as Champions and then finished 10th - it´s time to push on.

Pushing on doesn´t mean buying Messi and Neymar but trying to deepen the squad - think Burnley, not Chelsea.

[AP69]

ap has been active these last 2-3 days

In between jobs i can get some typing done
Can I assume you think I'm Pat?

[pboromag]

I don't think I mentioned pat