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Thread: Ot Austria gets it right.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    8,359

    Ot Austria gets it right.

    Finally we have a European country doing what I've always called for.
    Stop foreign funding of mosques and disallow entry to preachers from those countries who are prone to incite followers.

    All mosques should be local. The local or national Islamic body of the country should be the only ones who build, manage, instruct and guide these mosques.

    This is what is practised here in the Far East, even in Muslim countries like Malaysia and Indonesia. Singapore strictly enforces this.
    What happens thus, is that the message in every mosque is uniformed. Preachers and sermons reflect the context of the religion in the country not those in other countries.

    The major problem in having foreign embassies or bodies building mosques is that these bodies inevitably will bring the context of the religion from their own countries to the host nation.
    Worse it also brings the rivalries from these countries to the host.

    So if Turkish mosque is built, it's preachers will preach against say countries Turkey are odds with, say Syria or against the Kurds. A Qatari mosque inevitably will be rivals with a Saudi or UAE mosque.

    And preachers from Muslim countries which adhere to a more conservative line will lament and rail against the liberalism in Western countries. This inevitably will see some of it's adherents taking it a step too far and slowly a chasm forms between them and their European hosts who will be considered un-Islamic.

    If Muslims feel more comfortable with the stricter codes in conservative countries, by all means they should go there. But we cannot bring these countries stricter code here which is presently the case.

    Britain should follow suit. Have a National Islamic body to run, educate and enforce the religion here. All outsiders have no say. They can be invited to give talks and lessons but under a strict formula issued by the British body not anything they choose. Comply and they can come again and again. Disobey and a deportation and long term ban issued.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    7,186
    Quote Originally Posted by Romanis View Post
    Britain should follow suit. Have a National Islamic body to run, educate and enforce the religion here. All outsiders have no say. They can be invited to give talks and lessons but under a strict formula issued by the British body not anything they choose. Comply and they can come again and again. Disobey and a deportation and long term ban issued.
    Won't work. The power of social media would overwhelm any 'enforced' policy and you can't deport those legally allowed to be here

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_Faber View Post
    Won't work. The power of social media would overwhelm any 'enforced' policy and you can't deport those legally allowed to be here
    On paper it may seem so. I think you're placing too much emphasis on social media. Of course there will always be some who are self radicalized by the Internet, but the majority who become such do it the 'traditional way'
    That is through meeting other such persons and almost always a senior 'religious figure'

    I mix around with a lot of Muslims out here. You see Islam is not a very easy religion to adhere to if you want to go in deeply. Of course all Muslims know the basic and important stuff. But if you want a deeper understanding of the Quran, you need to be well versed in the Hadiths ( which is Muhammad's teachings and explanations of the various texts in the Quran)

    The Quran is similar to the Bible and also different. I mean you can't just read the Bible as you would a book although some parts this can be done, say in the Books of Kings and the Gospels. But you also need to understand the others like Psalms and parts of the Gospel relating to parables or even Revelations.
    Here you'll need a good pastoral figure to explain to you what exactly it means.

    So the Quran is the same in that sense. It's not to be read like a book. You'll need to read the Hadiths and other works by figures that followed Muhammad to explain the meanings of verses.

    And while the Bible is now quite standardised, where almost everyone explains the 'figurative parts' the same way, this is not so easily done with the Quran.
    Of course there are standard parts like reciting the Shahadat, fasting, daily prayers and procedures.
    But other parts are not so easily understood and here's where certain.elements exploit it.

    They use it to underline their hardline position. That's why it's so important to ensure only 1 'correct' message is taught and becomes the norm.
    For example in Turkey, Attaturk rightly saw that religion can be easily used to sway the people. Hence he pushed for secularism (although that seems to be turned back now). He enshrined in the constitution that religion must be kept separate and managed nationally. As such if you go to any mosque in Turkey, the same message is preached each week. Like how the Catholics do it. Each week is a special week, where a certain portion of the Bible is taught.

    So that's why a consistent message must be sent out to all mosques in the country. Any deviation can only be done in a certain way. The interpretations need to be standardised.

    And while you say social media might prevent it, the reality is that its impact is minimal and only goes to the very few radicals. Why? Because the mosque is the central part for any and every Muslim community.

    You have to go to the Mosque for Friday prayers. You must go to6 mosque during Ramadan. You go to the most for your initial entry to learn recitation of the Quran. So if you control the mosque you control that community.

    And that's why Britain should disallow foreign embassies or bodies from building, managing or controlling the mosque. Preachers must teach the standard version. Foreign preachers are prone to doing the opposite. They will try their darn hardest to get people to follow what they are doing back home.

    Of course it can't be done overnight. This has been going on far too long. But if you start now, then the next generation will be brought up and taught in the way that reflects Islam in a British context.

    Austria is doing the right thing. Others should follow suit.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    7,461
    Totally disagree. They should ban all organised religions as being detrimental to the well being of the populace as they want you to follow a piece of fiction. Confiscate all the cash, land, buildings, artefacts, art etc etc these have and then use it to help the poor and the needy.

    this Law needs rolling out worldwide and we could eradicate poverty at a stroke.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    6,523
    Whilst I approve the sentiment in the post MA, if there was no religion people would just create another one as they need to believe in something beyond their own futility. A fresh start without the vulgar wealth of organised religion and the corruption in its administration might temporarily improve things, but not for long.

    I may exempt Buddhism from this view though. Really if we can abolish all forms of Christianity and Islam we aould be so much better off and much of the hatred against each other and in the sectarianism within each belief would disappear.

    But there would still be the poverty

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