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Thread: Is lg1 suited for Stendels tactics?

  1. #1
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    Is lg1 suited for Stendels tactics?

    We've been here afooar wi Tom ent we. I'm not suggesting Daniel and Tom are the same, far from it. I'm just trying to use Tom to get my point across. We all knew that Tom was over thinking things which sent us to our lowest ebb in many a year, 8 straight defeats. Tom's tactics were complicated and confused some of our players which
    stifled them in my opinion. I always felt Tom's tactics were more suited to a higher level of football than lg1.

    Now we are back in lg1 and have a German coach with a vision and an unfamiliar strategy which will take our players time to grasp I feel. I like the idea of high pressing, energy and fitness, every player knowing their role coupled with the methodology of a German HC. It sounds good but let's remember that this is lg1 where the standard isn't great.

    Now then, with all due respect to our players I ask, are they able to adapt to this style quicky enough to gain the necessary results and meet the remit of promotion set by the board? I think its a tall order personally.

    Not only that but there is the opposition to take into account too at lg1 level. Having watched a fair few lg1 games last season the quality was poor and they certainly don't play much football. The ball spends more time in the air than it does on the floor. The main concern for me is how do we press that kind of style?

    The teams generally use an out ball to their strikers most of the time who try to hold it up. If we press high and allow the opposition the escape ball then we are suddenly on the back foot and vulnerable because it's their type of game, its what they're about and what they are used to playing. We may be punished.

    The high press will probably work against Rochdale or any other lg1 team that actually tries playing from the back. We press them high and force a long ball where they have no lump to try and hit which means we get it back and go again. Trouble for me is that there's too many teams that don't play football from the back and that is why I question the tactics in this division.

    Herr Stendel will have enough on trying to make our players adapt to his style in the early weeks of the season. Unless our lads take to Stendels new ideas like a duck does to water then we may see some poor results at first.

    I'm glad Bobby Hassle is involved because his knowledge of lg1 is there and could prove the difference for our new HC. It means he's not walking into this completely blind thank fuq.

    In my humble opinion I think it takes a hard working and organised team to get out of this division, a team that keeps it's shape and keeps it simple. Shrewsbury weren't blessed with huge amounts of skill but they had a solid shape and team ethic which can take you a long way at this level. I have my doubts about high pressing systems at this level. In the championship fine but lg1 concerns me.

    Am not trying to slate the new guy here or get on his back at all. I'm totally behind him. I'm just expressing my opinion. What's your thoughts guys?

  2. #2
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    Good topic pass n move , just setting off for work so I'll give my opinion later tonight .

  3. #3
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    I agree Pass. A mentioned it a day or two back that if we ev three or four players pressing high up their heyf and "the press" fails ie they get the ball art then we become artnumbered in midfield and defence. Tha reyt in that Third Division sides are mooar likely to lump it forrad quickly rather than try to play it art from the back thereby by passing the "high press".
    We'll need a Scowen and a Perkins running abart in midfield brekking up play and big centre heyves to combat the opposition big donkeys up front.

    The German will sooart it.
    Last edited by SBRed48; 12-06-2018 at 01:01 PM.

  4. #4
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    You can wish to play a certain way but are the players capable is another thing .

    I doubt it

  5. #5
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    Good OP.

    To add to the debate, we (Millers) played the high press last season and were promoted (albeit via the lottery of the play offs). So it can be successful in L1. That said, our main weapon was fitness. Paul Warne, a fitness fanatic, took the team on a pre season tour of Austria. Early morning hill runs etc.

    You'll be surprised by how good some of the attacking play is in L1, but the flip is how poor the defending can be. Consistency is an issue for L1 sides. Most have decent starting 11s but thin squads. So a couple of injuries/suspensions hits the clubs hard. There's usually a few unpolished diamonds on loan from championship/premier lg clubs and youll be frustrated they didn't come to your club. One year in league 2 we lost in the play offs to Dagenham but in reality we lost to west hams under 23s.

    Oh, and some of the away support is woeful.

  6. #6
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    Yes we saw the good and the extremely bad of Lg One a few years ago, and we weren't up for it enough and weren't good enough at first under Wilson.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acido View Post
    Yes we saw the good and the extremely bad of Lg One a few years ago, and we weren't up for it enough and weren't good enough at first under Wilson.
    You make a valid point acido, I.e. about being up for it. The L1 teams are very well organised in general and you have to put a shift in to beat them. An attitude of just turning up to win will, in my opinion, lead to a rude awakening.

  8. #8
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    And hopefully Stendel will put that to them, that they need to be professional against every team in this league. And not think that simply turning up will be enough for the 'result'.
    If he is going to want to make these big changes in players, tactics, formations, and even fitness & attitudes, then its not going to happen overnight and we're going to have to be patient.

  9. #9
    I'm expecting a at least 3-4 new midfielders incoming if we are expecting to emulate the "Gegen press" tactics.

    Unfortunately at this stage i can only see this ending in disaster. I really think we should have gone down the experienced route rather than the unknown in Stendal. Happy to be proved wrong..

  10. #10
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    Disater written all over it, we needed a tried and tested League 1 coach who knows what this division is about! Not someone who is "doing his league 1 homework" and has told the world the tactics we will play.
    Hopefully we will catch a few out early doors before they switch on and realise that if they let us run about for 45 minutes they can batter us in the second half because we have run out of steam.
    I really hope i'm wrong, however we are Barnsley not Liverpool or Man City so chances are I'm right.

  11. #11
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    It doesn't matter what system the coach wants to adopt on the field of play because it boils down to the players capabilities .

    Now in my mind a coach would come in , assess the players attributes and pick a system that suits their talents , in short making the best of what you have , something Warnock does extremely well .

    Herr Daniel has put his cards on the table when he was interviewed , this is what I do and the club have hired him on the strength of that , this is what our fans want to see so go Herr Daniel say the club , hmmm !!!

    The problem as I see it is that this system requires you to outscore the opposition in the respect that defending is not the priority .

    It requires players with energy and high intensity , they need to be intelligent and know where to run and when , this doesn't sound like your average league one footballer in my opinion .

    The dwarf tried this complicated game plan thing and lost 9 on the bounce , once the team went to simple 4-4-2 the rest as they say was history .

    I don't want to knock the bloke because he's a credible coach who comes with a plan , I like a man with a plan but a one trick pony is a different matter .

    The recruitment team have their work cut out to deliver the players that will enable this to work effectively and the coach has also got top weight on getting the ones already here up to speed with this system .

    We seem to be driving all the way to Blackpool when our destination is only in west yorkshire .

    It's outside the box I'll give them that but credible or not it's a higher gamble than it needed to be .

    With two or three additions Grayson would pyss the top 6 with the present squad , no doubt in my mind .

    That said you can't say it's boring and who can say how football will go , for all I know this is the perfect fit and we will attain 100 points , an equal amount of goals scored and win the league by 10 points .

  12. #12
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    Canít disagree with anything you put there Animal, couple of things for thought to add:

    Lincoln City play a version of this and with a very limited budget have been relatively successful with it, oddly they struggled more against lesser teams than top teams and teams above them in the league structure. Where Lincoln struggled was they had the big man upfront in Matt Rhead to get the ball to quickly and had the energy to support him quickly but lacked the quality to finish.
    Lots of good and bad things to pull out of above, i suppose what Iím trying to say is limited players can play the system with success, hopefully we will have some better quality to finish.

    Secondly and perhaps the bigger point: At their press conference they said this was a long term project etc, perhaps they are looking at this as simple as, this is the style we want the club to play and are willing to accept it might take a couple of seasons to adapt (I have no doubt if possible they want to go up first attempt financially). Whereas fans we are looking at success next week/season)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lk311 View Post
    Canít disagree with anything you put there Animal, couple of things for thought to add:

    Lincoln City play a version of this and with a very limited budget have been relatively successful with it, oddly they struggled more against lesser teams than top teams and teams above them in the league structure. Where Lincoln struggled was they had the big man upfront in Matt Rhead to get the ball to quickly and had the energy to support him quickly but lacked the quality to finish.
    Lots of good and bad things to pull out of above, i suppose what Iím trying to say is limited players can play the system with success, hopefully we will have some better quality to finish.

    Secondly and perhaps the bigger point: At their press conference they said this was a long term project etc, perhaps they are looking at this as simple as, this is the style we want the club to play and are willing to accept it might take a couple of seasons to adapt (I have no doubt if possible they want to go up first attempt financially). Whereas fans we are looking at success next week/season)
    Creating lots of chances is fine if you are converting a high percentage , it's the hardest job on the pitch and why good strikers come at a premium .

    Now if you aren't converting and because of the system you are always likely to concede then you can have a problem , a big problem .

    The history of football says a tight defence gives you more chance of success than a leaky one , you only have to score one goal to claim the points , rocket science it aint .

    Remember Keegan's Newcastle in the 90's ? , great entertainment but they won feck all .

    Klopp's Liverpool ? , tore Man City a new one twice but who won the league ?

    Klopp's Liverpool were perfectly fine against the teams who came out to play , not so good against the Swansea's , Stoke and WBA who they all dropped points to .

    Interesting that the club is Stats Based but ignores the fact 29 of the last 30 clubs who won promotion from league one had brits in the technical area and nobody wins owt without a tight defence .

    Animals verdict .

    The club are more interested in accumulating cash through player sales than success on the field , it's carefully hidden within the statements but it's as clear as the nose on your face in my honest opinion .
    Last edited by animallittle3; 13-06-2018 at 10:37 AM.

  14. #14
    Well I thought cavare, mcgeehan, Mallan, Lyndsey, Potts, fryers, Isgrove, McCarthy, pinnock, friars and Moore were good signings at the time, they just werenít up to the level of the championship yet(by 1 goal).
    I think Moncur, Bradshaw, Davies and Walton are very good championship players.
    Not sure about thiam and pinnilos.
    Along with hedges and victor Iíd like to see another couple knocking on the door of the first team.
    Having said that, with the potential money from Mawson and knassmulner coming in and another bit of trimming, I canít see why we canít add 3xquality players plus 2 more quality loans out of our price range to form a strong squad in depth for this league.
    Iím optimistic for next season if the coach can get them up and at it every game we should have enough to do well

  15. #15
    Managed to mention fryers twice and spell his name differently. Need more sleep

  16. #16
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    In L1, the defenders are less likely to be ball players than their Championship counterparts - a high pressing game will expose their relative lack of ball skills, forcing mistakes - if they lug it upfield, we showed that we were more than capable of dealing with any aerial threat! Our players need to be fit enough (not just leave it to Moore) to do this. In the past, when we've held back, we've made opposition teams look like Barcelona- get among them & we will be successful

  17. #17
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    Get stuck in ya big Jessie.


    (Extract from SB Coaching Manual 1968)
    Last edited by SBRed48; 13-06-2018 at 03:00 PM.

  18. #18
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    I think we're all making too much of this gegenpress. What's saying Stendel won't be a one trick pony and he's studying league 1 and other ways of playing as we speak? There's more than one way of playing against a number of opposition. If you're playing one of the bottom teams at home you're going to play a more fluid system and tactics. If you're playing a top team away you're going to play a tighter system. There shouldn't be a set way off playing. It should be relative. That isn't being too respectful of the better opposition or arrogant against the poorer teams either. This gegenpress for me isn't so much what you do with the ball its a system off the ball.

    I can't see too much of a wholesale change other than we'll press like we used to do under Flicker, Johnson and Hecky until they started to reinvent the wheel.

  19. #19
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    As hes German, Im hoping Stendel is going to be like a BMW rather than a dud VW Beetle!. And theres every chance that he will indeed have a few ideas up his sleeve.
    Im more optimistic than I was the last time we dropped down to this league, put it that way.

  20. #20
    It's going to take more than this "gegen press" to get out of this league. We need to be streetwise, something we lacked at an embarrassing level last season. We are too nice, all too often letting the opposition dictate the officials for example.

    In terms of players capabilities, we are carrying too many players not up to the task and are not going to develop their game any further I.E Brad Potts.

    Automatic promotion hopes is just pie in the sky at present in my opinion. We will do well not to finish lower than 10th.

    Again, happy to be proved wrong.

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