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Thread: Fed Q&A with Martin and Fyffe

  1. #21
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    To cover your points FTD;

    1. I’d heard from a decent source that Darren Taylor was responsible for most of the Jan signings. The quality of those signings (whoever made them) was woeful.

    2. Agree re Bow - on the face of it he doesn’t seem qualified for the role, other than having the advantage of being an ex-pro. Who knows, he might excel.

    3. Scouting /contacts - it’s an affy open statement from the club, sounds like we’ll be open to everything!

    4. Don’t have any issue with the player contract structure other than the format of payment, I.e. at the end of the season. I’d rather get paid my bonuses monthly (even if it’s 50% and if they do the biz and win the title they get another wedge

    5. We should not be breaking our pay structure unless it’s for a special player, eg Adam Rooney/ GMS / Ciftci

    6. Meetings on signings will be fluid I’d imagine - lots of conference calls and messaging in between the 3 days so don’t see that as a criticism.

    7. Transfers - minimise the risk that the player is schite. Our recruitment policy recently has seen that the majority (certainly in Jan) were schite. We need to make signings where the majority play a healthy role in our improvement.

    8. Challenge cup - very sound decision.

    9. Elite academy status - I thought there were major barriers to entry financially - I.e. indoor facility???

    10. Sunday morning warm-down sessions will now take place, the players will have Monday off and be back in at St Andrews on a Tuesday morning. - CL’s preference. Don’t really care but the players might be pissed off at not being able to have a few drinks on a Saturday night?

    11 I’d support afternoon training - I’d start with passing, controlling, shooting and headering based on last seasons performance 😜

    12. Budget - sounds like we are continuing to make a calculated risk to support a promotion push - as long as its manageable I don’t have a major issue. Whether it’s cup ties or more fans going through the doors. We will only get that IF we are better than the past two seasons.

    13. I think the new sports bar will be very good. Anything to get fans up early, have a few drinks, make some money and hopefully improve the atmosphere. Good regarding the GF too.

    Pubs in general are dying on their arse, it’s not the responsibility of United though.

    14. New owners - who knows but hopefully.

    15. United still own 20% of Ryan Gauld and will get a sell-on fee for Stuart Armstrong.
    Great news....hopefully

    16. Budgeting for a loss - hopefully suggests MM or new owners are willing to underwrite this. And it reads that they are hopeful of being able to minimise this.

    17. I’m not too worried about ST at the moment - I can’t an eventuality where he returns to the fold in any way. That’s blind faith btw

    18. Trial game/ concerts no bothered but sounding unlikely on both. Can’t see why Mary slessor or mcdiarmid wouldn’t be used as both have the necessary infrastructure.

  2. #22
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    F

  3. #23
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    Can admin delete that dud post. Tried to edit it but couldn't.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTD1983 View Post
    Not to labour a point, but the one real decision made and actually carried out by MM to date is keeping on Csaba.

    His justification seems to be that he personally has faith in him.

    So to be clear, the one decision/action made by our chairman has you fuming at him but he says he has faith in CL so it’s fine with you despite you seeing the evidence of last season?

    Are you forgetting MM has been in the picture at Tanny for years? I’ll bet he had faith in McKinnon start of last season. Mixu before him and JMac before that.

    Too easily swayed by meaningless, speculative words for me.

    This seasons signings are even more of a downgrade than last seasons. Last season we were competing with premiership teams for guys like scobbie, Fyvie and skippy. Guys who had done it at this level or were dropping from a level above.

    This season we have signed a plethora of players from fellow sides who have failed to make waves at this level and this is being held up as a triumph?

    The biggest myth of all is that Thompson has “no influence”

    If you believe the majority shareholder has no influence on HIS business then you can’t be helped. He’s no longer the public face, for political reasons, but his lap dog of many years is the front and he’s at the back with the strings, please don’t doubt it.

    As for MM being more communicative ad telling us all his plans - if we are being taken over why is he making long term plans? Surely if a takeover is at advanced stages he should be looking at keeping the ship steady before he hands over - not making wide statements on long term club policies such as contract length and T&Cs.

    I’d honestly rather not hear about things like warm down days, 25 mile radius, agents trying to get better deals, press making stuff up. Just shut up and deliver. So far MM has delivered a lot of long soundbites, a lot of buzzwords and an unpopular clown of a manager.

    If that’s enough for you then fire on but until he starts delivering on the things that matter it’s not enough for me.

    The Luggy situation is endemic of MMs leadership. He’s been involved at the club again 4-5 months and we’ve been given 3 different descriptions of his role and future role. Luggy was brought in to give the fans a buzz! That’s all it was - bring in Luggy, talk about Jim McLean type policies and convince fans to buy season tickets.

    Meanwhile an underperforming youth manager gets a key position cos MM lacks the balls to sack him as Bow has a lot of credit with the fans.

    Ellis is all but replaced by burger but still has a position. Surely we only need one assistant to the manager - you can give either any title you want - that’s what they are. It’s an embarrassment and speaks to weak management.
    It's not just one real decision though is it?

    Moved on Taylor.

    Appointed Luggy.

    Temporarily expanded luggy's remit.

    Shake up with Bow moving to scouting.

    Garden away with new GK coach to come in.

    Appointed Eastie.

    Appointed Robertson.

    Advertised for full time head of finance.

    Advertised for head of sports science and physio etc.

    George Fox lounge refurb.

    Gussie gym development.

    Sports bar refurb of the hydro shed across from main door.

    Wee things with bonus structure, etc.

    Appointed Burger.

    These may be seen as little things or unpalatable even. However they are real decisions.

    Time tells all. We'll eventually find out if they have been good decisions or not.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by FTD1983 View Post
    Yet more talk. Talk is cheap.

    To address some of the points:

    From Fed update of q&a with Martin and Fyffe says Taylor and Thompson signed majority of players in Jan. So criticisms of signings perhaps shouldn't be laid entirely at Csaba's door. [B]This is bull****. Age old tactic of scapegoating the people who are no longer there. I’ve long suspected this ST stepping into the shadows was seen as a way for the leadership in charge of the club to use him as a punchbag, the boogeyman, whilst the “new” chairman – one of his best mates – runs the ship – we are still under the same ownership and therefore the same regime!

    Debate still taking place about whether the structure should be primarily our own scouts or recommendations from "contacts". What does this even mean!? How can this debate be ongoing when we have recently appointed 2 blokes to scouting roles? Why appoint them if the decision isn’t made? Surely recommendations from contacts is an inherent part of the scouting process? Are we saying that we either listen to contacts for tips or that we just randomly turn up at as many games as we can and watch random players. If we choose a route of “our own scouts” will we just delete any emails from agents/friends of the club etc? An absolute nonsense of a statement.


    The players will only get a bonus if they win a game, no bonus for a draw. The bonus will be paid at the end of the season - but only if we are the Champions, if not the bonus will be halved. So we are telling the fans on the one hand low basic and big bonuses – I can understand that as a player who backs themselves that may sound appealing. However we are now hearing that even the bonuses aren’t guaranteed and won’t make up the weekly wages as traditional bonuses do. This effectively confirms that our “lower wages” are probably commensurate, if not slightly higher than the other “big teams” in this league. This has led to us signing a markedly lower level of player this season (i.e championship jobbers) as we are no longer capable of competing with top flight sides for players. This is a far cry from the Jim McLean days of a really low basic wage that we have been sold this as.

    Mike Martin, Luggy, Csaba, David Southern and Laurie Ellis meeting about every 3 days to discuss signing targets. Mike Martin and David Southern handle contracts with the agents of the players Csaba wants to bring in. This is their job! It should be a daily meeting at such a critical stage of the season FFS

    A rigid checklist is in place to ensure the risks in recruitment are minimised. One year deals are no longer considered. I’m against blanket statements like this – there are exceptions in every business and always room for short term contractors…. What can a checklist possibly bring to this – unless the top point is “Make sure player isn’t ****e”

    The Challenge Cup will be for the reserve squad this season, Craig Easton and Scott Robertson will be in the dugout for this competition. Good

    An application has been made for United's academy to have elite status. Why? We can’t afford this at the moment

    Sunday morning warm-down sessions will now take place, the players will have Monday off and be back in at St Andrews on a Tuesday morning. Fluff – we’ll see how long this lasts – I can’t see any benefit to it. Players should be warming down immediately after the match and then resting.

    Specific afternoon training sessions will be held with only the players involved in the topic being covered required to attend. These sessions may at times cut across all squads. Fluff – we should train as a team – if we need afternoon sessions it should be as a squad. Whats the point in having defenders in to work on something defensively without having actual attackers pushing them – unless of course the intent is to train other defenders as a replacement for Mark Durnan as the emergency striker.

    The club will make a financial loss this season due to the revenue situation i.e. Championship v SPL income and not costs which are all budgeted and under a more strict control. Success will be rewarded but failure will be addressed quickly. Why is the championship income a surprise? I thought we had 2 budgets, one for going up, one for staying down, so why are we still using this revenue situation as an excuse? You can’t make a loss and say it’s not down to costs, but is purely down to income. Cost should be based on (and lower than) known income – this is a failure to budget correctly.

    A new sports bar will be opening half way through the season. It will be on two levels with the top section used for match day hospitality. The George Fox hospitality lounges have been combined and improved at almost no cost to the Club thanks to various sponsors. This facility is to be utilised out with match days and as it now has its own entrance can be used without opening the stand. It is hoped that a variety of non football related functions will utilise this facility providing additional ongoing revenue to the Club. I’m not a fan of the sports bar – think the impact on local businesses (pubs tbh) could be a killer – but I’m not dead against it and praise the board for looking to maximise revenue. The GF hospitality could be a real earner so good to see that investment.

    The share sale process is progressing, due diligence has been complete for some time and Mike Martin is confident of a successful outcome. The prospective new owners have been kept informed in relation to the big numbers for 2018/19 but not the detail of how these sums are to be spent. Mike Martin confirmed that if he is still involved after the share sale he will consider establishing a basis in Dundee. He also stated that Gussie's ownership would revert to the Club when the share sale takes place at the same price he paid. It’s unuasual for due diligence to be complete yet still no sniff of who these new owners are – I’m not buying it tbh but hopefully this is true!

    United still own 20% of Ryan Gauld and will get a sell-on fee for Stuart Armstrong. Mike Martin stressed that some media stories were completely without foundation using Chris Miller as a recent example. Good news RE Gauld and stretch – absolutely no shock to anyone RE the media

    Although a loss was expected for the current year this could be reduced by unbudgeted income with Mike Martin giving the example of the Scottish Cup game against Aberdeen which was worth approx. £100k to United. We are effectively gambling and hoping for a good cup draw – not a clever business model

    Mike Martin's 33% share purchase took place in October. No formal announcement was made as he didn't think it was of interest as Stephen Thompson still remained the majority shareholder. Mike Martin and Jimmy Fyffe both stressed that Stephen Thompson has no involvement with the Club at any level and they believe this will continue until the sale of his shares takes place. He has no involvement with the club at any level yet is the majority shareholder? The Majority shareholder has absolute authority and sign off on any decisions – why are people swallowing this?

    Luggy is now unlikely to hold the trial game previously mentioned although some players will be invited to join "on trial" during the pre season period. It is hoped to announce more pre season friendlies shortly. ”We thought the trial idea would sound good and progressive, we reailise now it’s amateur and has embarrassed our club and fans so we’ve cancelled it. We still intend on having trialists in friendlies, like every club in the world does though….” FFS.

    Another revenue stream being considered is looking at Tannadice as a concert venue , Rod Stewart in June/July 2019 was mentioned Not a snowballs chance in hell of an open air concert in a heavily built up residential area. Pure pie in the sky.
    The post begins with. talk is cheap...yet more talk....

    It seems to me that the Board cannot win. the usual complaint is that there is not enough communication. Now the chairman comes out to explain in detail his plans and you criticise him. You complain about talk being cheap as if there are no actions contained in the session yet from what I have seen he has laid out in details loads of actions.

    When I read posts like this from FTD I have to consider how credible the complainer is in comparison to the person he is criticising and unfortunately for FTD here unless he is able to demonstrate a level of success in his own business life that MM can then why should I or anyone else have more confidence in your opinions than from someone who has had an exceptionally successful life and has chosen to invest his hard earned cash and donate his valuable time for the benefit of a team a club that we all claim to love.

    Criticising is easy and too many people on here just seem to get off on it. If you are so convinced you can do a better job at running a club then invest some of your hard earned millions (that you have acquired in your vocational life from your years of brilliance) and buy a seat at the table.

    For me MM deserves a clean slate and to be judged on what happens from here. For me he is doing a lot right and it seems that once again a manager is being backed. one little example of this was the expenditure on the pitch to improve a surface that is already getting a lot of credit. These are the actions of someone interested in every detail towards having a succesful club and I applaud it.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    194
    Quote Originally Posted by PortugueseFrank View Post
    It's not just one real decision though is it?

    Moved on Taylor. – Had to happen – fan opinion demanded it and low cost. He was the sacrificial lamb to justify Csaba being kept on “it wazna his fault, it was the other guy, honest”

    Appointed Luggy. Appealing to fans emotions – for future incidences I’ll refer to this as “Birthday Card pish”

    Temporarily expanded luggy's remit. Why? If he’s brought in to do one job why are we chopping and changing things on the hoof? There is also a fair bit of Birthday Card pish about this as well incidentally.

    Shake up with Bow moving to scouting. Jobs for the boys Birthday Card Pish

    Garden away with new GK coach to come in. If he’s of the calibre of recently appointed new coach, Scott Robertson (ex player no coaching experience), then, to quote Mixu, whats the ****ing point? I see this as appealing to the fans by getting rid of the last remnants of Ratnamara regime.

    Appointed Eastie. I’ll give Eastie credit, he seems to have done well at Raith and it’s the one new staff appointment I can see a logical reason for – reason enough not to call an ex favourite returning as birthday card pish

    Appointed Robertson. Jobs for the boys birthday card pish.

    Advertised for full time head of finance. Why has a club our size not already got one?

    Advertised for head of sports science and physio etc. Same as above

    George Fox lounge refurb. A good shout and seems to be finished by his statement – happy with that.

    Gussie gym development. I’m not actually too clued in on this but he’s effectively investing in his own asset. Has this work started/been completed?

    Sports bar refurb of the hydro shed across from main door. I’m just not feeling this – sports bars are ****e generally – hope to be proven wrong and depending on initial outlay could be a good earner for the club. Would I rather be buying back assets like Gussie and Tannadice – yes. Have we commited money and broken ground on this yet – no – it’s all words just now.

    Wee things with bonus structure, etc. Jim McLean birthday card pish

    Appointed Burger. Good. But what about Ellis? Is there a need for both?

    These may be seen as little things or unpalatable even. However they are real decisions.

    Time tells all. We'll eventually find out if they have been good decisions or not.
    Thanks for your response - I've addressed them all in bold.

    I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong or anything - it's all good debate. When I start seeing tangible results on these promises (well the ones with value) I'll be happier but I maintain almost all of this is just words at the moment.

    RE the change in personnel - elements of that are really just par for the course with a new regime - I'm not convinced by the logic or reasoning for some appointments (Luggy - what does he do? Bowman - what does he bring? Robertson - same)

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    194
    Quote Originally Posted by thefutureistangerine4 View Post
    The post begins with. talk is cheap...yet more talk....

    It seems to me that the Board cannot win. the usual complaint is that there is not enough communication. Now the chairman comes out to explain in detail his plans and you criticise him. You complain about talk being cheap as if there are no actions contained in the session yet from what I have seen he has laid out in details loads of actions.

    When I read posts like this from FTD I have to consider how credible the complainer is in comparison to the person he is criticising and unfortunately for FTD here unless he is able to demonstrate a level of success in his own business life that MM can then why should I or anyone else have more confidence in your opinions than from someone who has had an exceptionally successful life and has chosen to invest his hard earned cash and donate his valuable time for the benefit of a team a club that we all claim to love.

    Criticising is easy and too many people on here just seem to get off on it. If you are so convinced you can do a better job at running a club then invest some of your hard earned millions (that you have acquired in your vocational life from your years of brilliance) and buy a seat at the table.

    For me MM deserves a clean slate and to be judged on what happens from here. For me he is doing a lot right and it seems that once again a manager is being backed. one little example of this was the expenditure on the pitch to improve a surface that is already getting a lot of credit. These are the actions of someone interested in every detail towards having a succesful club and I applaud it.
    Ah so the poor people shouldn't have an opinion.....

    Very ignorant post and outlook.

  8. #28
    Csaba is staying wether we like it or not. If its only because MM has faith in him, well, he's the chairman, so it's his decision. We can accept it, or moan about it to no avail.
    Perhaps the new owners are being kept up to speed with the planned changes and are happy with them.
    MM has mentioned it would be up to them if he stays as chairman. He probably sees this period of time as an audition, so to speak.
    Just because Bo cannae coach doesnt mean he cant go watch a player and give a report on him.
    I could go on but these complaints are quite laboured and really just looking for negativity.
    Maybe our more positive supporters arent the ones with their head in the sand.
    Or maybe our board are indeed evil capitalists, focused intently on hoovering cash from the pockets of Dundee United fans, led by the absent baldy snake.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by PortugueseFrank View Post
    F
    Thats your best ever post 😀

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTD1983 View Post
    Thanks for your response - I've addressed them all in bold.

    I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong or anything - it's all good debate. When I start seeing tangible results on these promises (well the ones with value) I'll be happier but I maintain almost all of this is just words at the moment.

    RE the change in personnel - elements of that are really just par for the course with a new regime - I'm not convinced by the logic or reasoning for some appointments (Luggy - what does he do? Bowman - what does he bring? Robertson - same)
    I get that you don't like what's being done. But my point is that it wasn't only one decision as you said.

    Robertson was Eastie's assistant at Raith. Player coach role so he has experience.

    On buying back the asset. That kind of money is going to be a long term project to raise and buy Gussie back. Therefore, I see the current initiatives to increase revenue as entirely appropriate and long overdue. As an aside I believe Martin confirmed that if the takeover goes through then Gussie will be back under club ownership. So that's perhaps why it's not the number one priority.

    On the finance and sportd science roles. Should have had them before but at least it's getting sorted now.

    As for the birthday card pish. Of course there is an element of that but you also get committed individuals who have positive legacies that they are risking ala Brewster by coming in and rolling up the sleeves. Will take time to see results from the new setup. Therefore I'm reluctant to pre judge the outcomes.

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