England only World Cup thread...

[Norder]

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didn't see much of the game....I record them so can fast forward to the best bits - but that only gives me a few mins from the 90 (if i'm lucky) - sad really - but beats falling asleep.

[oldcolner]

OC --it is the Video technology and the Video Assistant Referee which is being scrutinised ----not the match referee and it is he who you were saying was not up to the mark and I defended.
I will not defend VAR or its operators because it has no place in the game of football as far as I am concerned.
Goal line technology is great but it i a black and white issue whereas, as can be ssen on this board, other decisions taken by officials during a match will be seen differently by those watching and, as I have said before, that includes those operating the VAR --it is just another opinion.
Look at the foul which Colombia got today which led to their equalising goal, I have watched it several times and I don't know how it was deemed that Falcao was fouled -----opinions!

On the first incident with Kane it could be seen that Stones committed a push before the wrestling involving Kane ---opinions!

Seems like FIFA are not defending the ref.
Fifa previously put out statements confirming controversial VAR calls in France’s win over Australia and Brazil’s draw with Switzerland were correct. They said they would not be commenting on the Sassi-Kane clashes!
A Fifa spokesman would only confirm: “These incidents will be analysed.”

Any ref who is looking directly at a player being thrown to the ground and does nothing is not worth his salt whatever his ratings and career to date might say. It’s the ref who should ask for VAR in such a situation. I guess I’m never going to accept your argument which seems to be that World Cup refs are sacrosanct and make better decisions without VAR.

[blueheeler1]

Just why football, which must be the simplest game on the planet, is consistently the worst officiated on the planet is a mystery to me, but it continues to be the case. There is a referee and a linesman, both close to the action, a row of officials in front of a row of video
screens, but none of them see a succession of England players manhandled to the ground at corner after corner. I could see it, you could see it, I'm sure fans in the ground could see it, the commentators could see it, the studio muppets could see it, but none of the officials did ? I don't believe it, one or more of them must have seen it, but decided to ignore it. But why do they ignore it ? Why are they on the side of the cheats ? It was the same with the Tunisian time wasting in the second half, standing in front of free-kicks so they couldn't be taken, the referee could see it, he must have known what they were doing and why, but he totally ignored it. Why, just what is going on in their heads ? Why are they on the side of the cheats and timewasters ?
I've said it before, and last night was just more evidence, the problem in the game is not the players, it's the officials, the players will try to get away with as much as they can, as much as the officials will allow, and until they get a grip of the cheats games will continue to be mired in controversy and ruined.

The big mystery to me is why they don't, before every corner the refs see the wrestling in the box and go over to have a word, it's boring and pointless and just wastes time, but as soon as the corner comes in they apparently don't see the wrestling, none of it, they miss it all. Why not do it the other way round, ignore all the wrestling before the kick is taken, but penalise the first offence as soon as the ball is live. That would eradicate the problem within a couple of games, but the last ref that tried it in England, Mike Dean, nearly got hounded out of the game instead of being supported, it's all a mystery to me.

Sinkov, apparently the Refs "bottle it" because there would be a penalty given at every corner.

And I couldn't give a damn if that was the case because after four penalties the problem would go away.

You can not allow an obvious foul anywhere else on the pitch to be "ignored" only when it is in the penalty box.

It makes a joke of the game.

If we MUST use the crap VAR then use it after ever corner.

That will stop the problem.

[Supersub6]

Sinkov, apparently the Refs "bottle it" because there would be a penalty given at every corner.

And I couldn't give a damn if that was the case because after four penalties the problem would go away.

You can not allow an obvious foul anywhere else on the pitch to be "ignored" only when it is in the penalty box.

It makes a joke of the game.

If we MUST use the crap VAR then use it after ever corner.

That will stop the problem.

I would go even further in the attempt to ruin the game and I would use VAR for EVERY decision because, as a retired referee, no decision you make is more important than any other. The use of VAR for some incidents is singling them out as more important and is, by its very substance, undermining the onfield officials who are now getting confronted by players drawing screens in front of the referee --even, as was seen yesterday with the Japanese, questioning the legality of a goal which was given with goal line technology and has no connection to VAR.

OC --for your information, I am not saying that the referees are sacrosanct, I am saying that they are human and will make mistakes --just as those operating VAR will make mistakes. As I said before, the first claim for a penalty for Kane being wrestled to the ground can be countermanded by the simple fact that Stones pushed his opponent before the Kane incident, therefore, the referee should have given a free kick against England.
There were even questions being asked about the nationality of the VAR operator and his possible bias against England. It is mind boggling.
I accept that this is the future of the game because it is obvious that fans think that this will rid the game of bad decisions, however, the only way that this will be achieved is to get rid of onfield officials and just use VAR for every decision. In this World Cup the Assistant Referees have been instructed not to flag for marginal offside decisions because they will be decided by VAR --up to press, there have been at least 10 occasions were no flag has been shown until quite some time after an incident, hence the VAR has been used and the AR informed and then the AR is getting stick off the crowd and the commentators.

[oldcolner]

Super
If Stones fouled why didn’t he give a free kick. He didn’t so that can’t count as two wrongs don’t make a right. Use of VAR may have made that decision
And the second tackle wrestle? The WC panel of expert refs all 3 gave England 2 pens by the way.

World Cup refs are chosen supposedly on merit and I have no doubt they will do their best. It is possible for them to be bought or to be homers especially when Russia play. Some may not be up to PL standard and rate the referees sites show many getting one or two stars out of five so far. VAR is some insurance against ref bias, if it is used. The problem seems to be the ref ducks controversial decisions expecting VAR to get him off the hook, but some VAR refs are not so good at highlighting problems and may not have enough time before the ball comes back into play ending the matter. Refs seem rarely to be stopping and asking for VAR and that is the problem for me.
VAR seems to have minimised the role of Assistant refs who now seem afraid to call offside and miss crucial incidents.

[Supersub6]

Super
If Stones fouled why didn’t he give a free kick. He didn’t so that can’t count as two wrongs don’t make a right. Use of VAR may have made that decision
And the second tackle wrestle? The WC panel of expert refs all 3 gave England 2 pens by the way.

World Cup refs are chosen supposedly on merit and I have no doubt they will do their best. It is possible for them to be bought or to be homers especially when Russia play. Some may not be up to PL standard and rate the referees sites show many getting one or two stars out of five so far. VAR is some insurance against ref bias, if it is used. The problem seems to be the ref ducks controversial decisions expecting VAR to get him off the hook, but some VAR refs are not so good at highlighting problems and may not have enough time before the ball comes back into play ending the matter. Refs seem rarely to be stopping and asking for VAR and that is the problem for me.
VAR seems to have minimised the role of Assistant refs who now seem afraid to call offside and miss crucial incidents.

In other words, VAR is well on the way to ruining a game in which, for well over 100 years, players, managers and fans have accepted the decisions of the officials, even if they were not 100% correct all of the time, because they got the majority correct and the game went on regardless.

As I explained previously, the Assistant Referees have been instructed not to flag for marginal decisions so they are working to the orders of their bosses --that way they can keep their job. Nothing wrong with that except those watching and commentating are criticising them for doing what they have been told to do.
The quest for every decision to be 100% correct will carry on with the use of VAR and will still be open to question, unless they remove the onfield officials and do everything by VAR, except for goal line technology which works exceptionally well.

Any referee worth his salt gives decisions which he thinks are correct from what he sees with his own eyes anad he is aided and abetted by his assistants on the field of play. Why should he ask for VAR assistance if he is convinced the decision he has given is correct in the first place and the game has progressed?
We have become obsessed with VAR and its use and I really look forward to its progress in the local league on a Sunday morning when you are trying to encourage guys to become referees.
It is elitist because it will not be available on every ground, at every match, just as goal line technology is unavailable outside the top two divisions of English football.
This is saying that any matches outside of these divisions is totally unimportant and this is why I am against the use of VAR.
Ensure that it is available on every ground and ensure that everyone is fully trained in its use and it is fair otherwise it is totally unfair to all clubs participating.

As a footnote, not only is the PL not using VAR next season it will also not be used in the European Champions League even though it is already used in some of the leagues who will have clubs participating in the Champions League and has been requested by the Juventus Chairman because of the penalty awarded against them by Michael Oliver which was a totally correct decision but which the Chairman thinks would have been overturned by VAR.

[sinkov]

I've said all along, VAR will cause more problems than it solves, and so it is. The two Kane non-penalties are a red herring in this issue imo. The problem is not with VAR but the referee and linesmen, who had clear views of both incidents but chose to ignore them. If that is happening, if the officials aren't prepared to enforce the laws of the game, then never mind VAR, why have officials at all, scrap them, play without them, let's have a free for all, anything goes, because that is the current situation at corner kicks anyway.

And another bonus would be that time wasting would be reduced, because with their pedantic little lectures, their tedious free-kick routines, which have apparently to be explained in detail to every player within earshot, their spray cans etc, referees are responsible for far more stoppages and wasted time on a football field than any player ever is.

[1959_60]

Going off on a tangent, does anyone remember the 60's/70's referee Maurice Fussey?

He had the biggest stride ever for a human being. He could get back to the halfway line in four strides. And he was equally as quick running backwards.

No time wasting from our Maurice.

Carry on.

[Supersub6]

Going off on a tangent, does anyone remember the 60's/70's referee Maurice Fussey?

He had the biggest stride ever for a human being. He could get back to the halfway line in four strides. And he was equally as quick running backwards.

No time wasting from our Maurice.

Carry on.

I remember him well, however, you have to remember that that was in an era when officials could just get on with being officials and weren't scrutinised by 28 different camera angles and constant criticism from the media.
It made no difference to the fans because they have always moaned about officials.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I was stepping up to convert a hat trick of penalties.

The ref said he had never seen that before. I said to him I'll bet you ten bob you will see one now.

He said, I'll bet you a quid you take it again if you do!

Whatever happened to proper referees?