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Thread: England Russia WC 2018

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by champs95 View Post
    In no way I'm trying to get a reaction. Its just how I see it. I want to see England win a World Cup. This one was great fun. Imagine if we won it? Surely we should aspire to do that? If such a lack of talent (in your opinion) can reach a a semi at such a tender age, then let's encourage and support them to going one step futher, and winning it. That's not controversial is it?
    It's just I don't believe the best way of going about it is telling them they've been brilliant. They are young professional athletes who should want to win. And as a nation we need to find a way of doing that. Blowing smoke up their arse isn't the way ....imo.
    Jon Stones....excellent all tournament. Turns off for one moment in a semi final and we go out.
    Do we tell him he's been brilliant and a hero?
    No ....imo....He's been excellent and needs to really improve in the next 2 years as a defender so he doesn't do that in the next semi final of the next tournament.
    Which I do think we have a good chance of setting our sights on. Not disappear off for 30 years in glorious failure.
    I think we have a great young squad, and a really decent manager. And a great platform to build from.
    But I also maintain that Croatia are pretty average and at 1-0 up we needed to put them away. We didn't. We invited them in, and blew a monumental chance of winning a WC. Because I also think France are beatable.
    This may never be the case again in my lifetime?
    Or we learn to take the positives of this and push on. But improve and figure out a way of getting past a semi.
    At this moment in time, France and Croatia are not average.. They are the 2 best teams in the world on CURRENT form.. That is what a world cup is for, deciding these things.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxo1man41 View Post
    At this moment in time, France and Croatia are not average.. They are the 2 best teams in the world on CURRENT form.. That is what a world cup is for, deciding these things.
    But that doesn't mean that either of them are actually any good? More that the quality overall has been quite poor, poor German side, poor Brazil, poor Agentina, Belgium flattered to deceive .....

    When Liecester won the Prem a few years back. They weren't the best team. They didn't go into win more. They just capatalised on the fact the other sides in the Prem that one season, where all very poor. They were the best, just out of a very average bunch.
    This is no different.

    And had Liecester, having got into a magnificent position, blown it vrs West Ham (not a top team, someone very beatable) with 2 games to go and not won the league that season, they have missed out on a once in a lifetime chance. And would be been gutted.
    This is no different.


    Also, Panama got into a WC, Italy didn't. In no way does that make Panama better than Italy. It's just the way these work out. There isn't much sense to it.

    And it's not always the case the best team in any tournament will win it. Brazil where outstanding in 82, and got knocked out after 4 games.
    Last edited by champs95; 12-07-2018 at 08:33 PM.

  3. #43
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    I can't agree that France are poor, Champs. I don't really see a weakness in their team. I don't mean they are all great players, but they certainly have all the bases covered - from the hard man to the out-and-out speedster. And, surely, Giroud is due a game where the chances fall to him.
    Back to Croatia, it struck me that Modric was playing a little further forward in the first half. As soon as he dropped ten metres, he had more room to start spraying the passes.
    I also think you're being slightly harsh on England. I agree with you about our failure to convert chances, but I didn't think there was much we could do about either of their goals. For the first, Perisic just managed to get his foot beyond Walker's head; for the second, we saw the one problem about Trippier: he lacks height.
    We controlled the first hour and the first period of extra time. That lack of experience, though, meant that poor decisions and hastiness led to our missing some golden opportunities, although I also felt the blocks and rebounds almost never fell kindly for England. (As my son said, wouldn't it have been great to see Shearer spearheading this team?)
    Like you, I can't help feeling we missed an opportunity, but it was one of those games which could have gone either way, and the referee's bizarre decisions in the final 15 minutes didn't help.
    I'm not quite convinced by Alli and Lingard, but they may still need time to develop at this level. I'd have liked to see both of them taking a bit more of the pressure off Henderson, centrally.
    One thing that did work well for us throughout the tournament was the quickly-released, long pass down the wings. It's good to see an an England team with a bit of pace.
    I have promised my nine-year-old grandson that we will watch England win a WC Final together some day. I just hope I'm not gaga when it happens!

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    I can't agree that France are poor, Champs. I don't really see a weakness in their team. I don't mean they are all great players, but they certainly have all the bases covered - from the hard man to the out-and-out speedster. And, surely, Giroud is due a game where the chances fall to him.
    Back to Croatia, it struck me that Modric was playing a little further forward in the first half. As soon as he dropped ten metres, he had more room to start spraying the passes.
    I also think you're being slightly harsh on England. I agree with you about our failure to convert chances, but I didn't think there was much we could do about either of their goals. For the first, Perisic just managed to get his foot beyond Walker's head; for the second, we saw the one problem about Trippier: he lacks height.
    We controlled the first hour and the first period of extra time. That lack of experience, though, meant that poor decisions and hastiness led to our missing some golden opportunities, although I also felt the blocks and rebounds almost never fell kindly for England. (As my son said, wouldn't it have been great to see Shearer spearheading this team?)
    Like you, I can't help feeling we missed an opportunity, but it was one of those games which could have gone either way, and the referee's bizarre decisions in the final 15 minutes didn't help.
    I'm not quite convinced by Alli and Lingard, but they may still need time to develop at this level. I'd have liked to see both of them taking a bit more of the pressure off Henderson, centrally.
    One thing that did work well for us throughout the tournament was the quickly-released, long pass down the wings. It's good to see an an England team with a bit of pace.
    I have promised my nine-year-old grandson that we will watch England win a WC Final together some day. I just hope I'm not gaga when it happens!
    You can always explain things better than I Aucks.
    That's basically all I am trying to say is, we have done far better in this WC than I ever imagined. I've been proven wrong with certain players (Maguire etc) and before hand I would have said Semi final was fantastic. I still do.
    I just feel it was an opportunity misse, once the draw opened out. No team has made me sit up and marvel. We may never get close again?

    Some things we may slightly differ on. I don't think France looked anything special against Belgium. And haven't played any other side who are that good. Argentina where shocking. So for me, while they look better than those fairly mediocre sides, they aren't an unmovable object. That defence is absolutely there for the taking.
    And I just wouldn't see a top centre back, leave his man free like Stones did with their second goal. He didn't react, and turned off leaving his man free. It's a very small thng, and the rest of the tournament he was great. But that split second cost us. As good as they where 2nd half, and after 55 mins Modric turned up, what I'm saying is, by then, it should've been over. Had Shearer been playing we would've been going in 2 or 3 up at HT. By the time they got playing, it should've been over. But we stopped playing football, lost our composure, and invited them to play. And they grow in confidence. We missed our chance, massively.

  5. #45
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    Can't argue with that.

  6. #46
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    I'm seeing your point now champs, so I'll acknowledge it as fair.. One thing I think we can all agree on is Kane is no Shearer, said that before and I'll reiterate it now. Not fit to lace his boots.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxo1man41 View Post
    I'm seeing your point now champs, so I'll acknowledge it as fair.. One thing I think we can all agree on is Kane is no Shearer, said that before and I'll reiterate it now. Not fit to lace his boots.

    Also, I am a miserable old git now!! Don't forget that.
    So bare that in mind aswell.
    Why cant I just enjoy things anymore!? What's wrong with me?
    We got to a semi.
    Am I being really unfair and over critical?

    I just want to see us win a world cup. I think it would be wonderful. I was so proud this tournament. Maybe I am just being really selfish.
    Please let me know if I am .........

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by champs95 View Post
    Also, I am a miserable old git now!! Don't forget that.
    So bare that in mind aswell.
    Why cant I just enjoy things anymore!? What's wrong with me?
    We got to a semi.
    Am I being really unfair and over critical?

    I just want to see us win a world cup. I think it would be wonderful. I was so proud this tournament. Maybe I am just being really selfish.
    Please let me know if I am .........
    I think it's a natural reaction to disappointment, Champs. I would have expected to lose to France in the final, but it would have been nice to find out. I'm generally unflappable by nature, but I still felt the frustration of coming so close.

    Despair will be making a special effort to get to the final, of course, because he's a big supporter of France...
    I can almost picture him now, with his hooped shirt, a baguette, a beret, a string of onions round his neck, and a mademoiselle on either arm. Despair on right, I believe.
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    Last edited by AucklandRover; 13-07-2018 at 11:52 AM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    I think it's a natural reaction to disappointment, Champs. I would have expected to lose to France in the final, but it would have been nice to find out. I'm generally unflappable by nature, but I still felt the frustration of coming so close.

    Despair will be making a special effort to get to the final, of course, because he's a big supporter of France...
    I can almost picture him now, with his hooped shirt, a baguette, a beret, a string of onions round his neck, and a mademoiselle on either arm. Despair on right, I believe.
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    That's the very first thing I thought the other night Auks!! I would have found it too galling to lose to the French on Sunday. I can take Croatia, it hurts but I can take it. Losing to that lot, I don't think I could handle the arrogance etc.

    Lets just get better, come again and try to emulate them next time. I do now for pretty much the first time in my life, think we stand a good chance of building from here. Never have we had such a good young side, that have gone so far, with such a good bright young manager who fans can finally get behind and trust. And good young players coming through underneath them. We may well have turned a corner here. Hopefully so .......


    now the dust has settled, I do feel pride. And I do think you and your nephew have a good chance of sitting together and supporting us in a major final.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxo1man41 View Post
    I'm seeing your point now champs, so I'll acknowledge it as fair.. One thing I think we can all agree on is Kane is no Shearer, said that before and I'll reiterate it now. Not fit to lace his boots.

    I promise mate, I really was not trying to pick a fight. I was a bit frustrated that's all.
    You surley all know what I'm like by now. The emotion takes over ......

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    I think it's a natural reaction to disappointment, Champs. I would have expected to lose to France in the final, but it would have been nice to find out. I'm generally unflappable by nature, but I still felt the frustration of coming so close.

    Despair will be making a special effort to get to the final, of course, because he's a big supporter of France...
    I can almost picture him now, with his hooped shirt, a baguette, a beret, a string of onions round his neck, and a mademoiselle on either arm. Despair on right, I believe.
    Name:  Despair.jpg
Views: 22
Size:  98.6 KB
    I have a few friends out in France.. They are going wild.. Delighted for them.. Hope they win it now.

  12. #52
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    I have none - zilch Sax . Canít stand them.
    An Iím a very, very amenable fellow to most !
    I truly hope they get battered. But Iíll not be watching - in case they win . (Trust me !)

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxo1man41 View Post
    Aucks..?
    Yeah soz about that Saxo, Ive only just noticed my mistake, and it was because Im so used to Aucks more than anybody else on here replying to my posts. (well thats my excuse anyway, and Im jolly well sticking to it too!! ).

    But alas, Engerland's World Cup adventure is now over but its been a good one hasnt it, and as a neutral as well I think this has been a cracking tournament. Well done to Russia, I had high doubts about it right from the start but apparently they have been ace and friendly etc with all visiting fans.

  14. #54
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    Well, there's no substitute for that little bit of extra class shown by De Bruyne and Hazard, especially in counter-attacks.
    I was reasonably happy with how England played, but it's always more difficult to create chances against a team which sits back. Having said that, the opportunities WERE there, but a) Kane looked leg-weary; b) more of the headers should have been directed across the keeper, rather than towards the near post; c) lots of the shots were mis-hit and underpowered.
    I think this team can only get better. We really need a dynamic, attacking central midfielder. Henderson does his job very well, but that's mainly in a deeper role. Lingard and Alli don't look capable of running a game - not yet, anyway.
    It's struck me several times that Sterling might be better used as a final-30 substitute, when the defenders are getting tired.
    Trippier again England's best player.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    Well, there's no substitute for that little bit of extra class shown by De Bruyne and Hazard, especially in counter-attacks.
    I was reasonably happy with how England played, but it's always more difficult to create chances against a team which sits back. Having said that, the opportunities WERE there, but a) Kane looked leg-weary; b) more of the headers should have been directed across the keeper, rather than towards the near post; c) lots of the shots were mis-hit and underpowered.
    I think this team can only get better. We really need a dynamic, attacking central midfielder. Henderson does his job very well, but that's mainly in a deeper role. Lingard and Alli don't look capable of running a game - not yet, anyway.
    It's struck me several times that Sterling might be better used as a final-30 substitute, when the defenders are getting tired.
    Trippier again England's best player.
    I on the other hand thought the gulf in class was massive. I think the players and fans could have done without that. A real wake up call that we are a long way off competing with the best.

  16. #56
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    Still a lot better than I expected a month ago, Saxo!
    All the same, we really do lack a world-class midfielder.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    Still a lot better than I expected a month ago, Saxo!
    All the same, we really do lack a world-class midfielder.

    Harry Kane is nowhere near good enough for international football. The slowest striker I've seen play who could rival Kane, is Jordan Rhodes. Kane simply is by good enough. To make him captain and stick with him was nieve. I think it was one of months few mistakes Southgate made. Walker was poor too.

    The WC was poor quality. We played 2 teams who had any kind of quality. And lost to them. It was a fluke, has we gotten in the tough side of the draw, they probably wouldn't have made it past Japan.

    But they come back as heroes and will all be told they are amazing. So won't have to work hard at improving. Spurs players will go back to not winning anything and nothing really has changed. It was a one off fluke that probably won't be repeated for another 30 years. We really missed a huge chance.

  18. #58
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    You're a harsh judge, Champs.
    For large parts of the final, Croatia outplayed France, and WE dominated THEM for an hour. I agree, though, that Kane seemed to run out of energy and inspiration after the group-stage. In the end, we just didn't convert enough chances.
    What strikes me, though, is that counter-attacking has generally proved more successful than possession football in this tournament. Spain against Russia was the classic example, but the final was another, as well as England's games against Croatia and Belgium.
    Having watched the England Under-17 and Under-20 teams in the last year, it was noticeable that both used very fast counter-attacks successfully.
    Even in this competition we looked more dangerous when Rose was on the field, although he got caught out, defensively, a couple of times.
    I don't know if this factor will be taken account of in the next year or so, as it may just be coincidence, after all, but it must have given managers food for thought.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    You're a harsh judge, Champs.
    For large parts of the final, Croatia outplayed France, and WE dominated THEM for an hour. I agree, though, that Kane seemed to run out of energy and inspiration after the group-stage. In the end, we just didn't convert enough chances.
    What strikes me, though, is that counter-attacking has generally proved more successful than possession football in this tournament. Spain against Russia was the classic example, but the final was another, as well as England's games against Croatia and Belgium.
    Having watched the England Under-17 and Under-20 teams in the last year, it was noticeable that both used very fast counter-attacks successfully.
    Even in this competition we looked more dangerous when Rose was on the field, although he got caught out, defensively, a couple of times.
    I don't know if this factor will be taken account of in the next year or so, as it may just be coincidence, after all, but it must have given managers food for thought.

    France always looked like they had 2 or 3 gears they could go up whenever Croatia got close to them.

    I just think now the dust has settled a bit, you can look back at it. We lost 3 and won 3. Playing some really poor teams. And losing to anyone good.
    Germany, Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Spain .....all the sides who did nothing, or didn't qualify will all come again. They wont sit still. My concern is we fill the players heads too full of rubbish.

    Lingard had a poor WC
    Sterling had a poor WC
    Alli had a poor WC
    Kane (overall) had a poor WC despite getting the golden boot. It was because we played Panama.
    Young was pretty average etc etc


    I'd say only Maguire, Pickford and Trippier could walk away having done better than expected.

    If we tell them ALL ....which is exactly what we will do ....that they are heroes and we are proud of them no matter what, they simply wont improve.

    We are just an international Spurs. We wont ever win anything, we have a soft under-belly.

    Correct, for a period we had Croatia, we had our foot on their neck. Instead of seeing it out, we didn't make changes. We invited them on, we tired. Mentally and physically. And we had no answer to the toughest questions.
    Belgium embarrassed us twice, so I stop short of jumping for joy.
    It was good, it was also probably our one and only chance of getting in a final blown. Cant see it happening again.
    Southgate restored some pride, but we are no closer to winning a WC now than we where 30 years ago.

    And not many of these up and coming England players will play much next season, none of those under 17's or 19's will kick a ball in the Prem. So I don't see us progressing. English football is flawed due to the league format. And obscene money.
    It was nice to get an escape for 2 weeks this summer, but everyone got way too carried away, including me.

    I just hope Rovers get the same level of blind support from the same people getting excited about a bunch of Spurs players.

  20. #60
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    Yep !

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