OT - Gareth Thomas Wants Gay Chants Criminalized

[mistaram]

I'm with Rom on this one get a bit tired of he LGBT community wanting more and more get time you watch the news They got the civil partnerships then adoption same *** marriage They have all been given all that but they always want more I think probably 99% of the country don't care if somebody is gay or not We already have laws to protect them in public and the workplace anyone who runs a business will tell you we have literature reminding us of our obligations one regular basis As for crowds football as and always will have vile chanting anybody who follows Derby will have heard it every match especially at Brighton But as MA says there is a difference between banter and insensitivity When away fans come to P/Park and chant about burning your kids that's not banter when people have died If you go to Brighton and chant Your just a load of benders is it banter or not Let you decide

[MadAmster]

Very well put MA. Funnily enough I was subject to a dose of good old fashioned abuse this morning, a road rager mouthing 'you fat tw*t!' at me after a perceived roadcrime on the M42. I took it in my stride although I'm not sure how he worked out my ample girth hidden behind the car door.... Any given snowflake would have needed therapy after that hate crime

I too have an issue with fatophobes they need to realise that you don't put a bay window on a sh*thouse

[Geoff Parkstone]

I am sure there will be an "anti snowflake" generational shift in years to come when we will see a return to good old fashioned light hearted bigotry, but I doubt I will see it in my lifetime. The problem is that legislation isnt the answer, its public attitudes, and that simply isnt going to change no matter what laws are brought in. Its been against the law to murder someone for hundreds of years but it still happens.

Education will help a bit, but again if you shove too much LBGT **** down peoples throats then they will react against it: its human nature. Then again the snowflake generation will probably need counselling for stress if they are made to learn things and actually sit exams to prove they have understood it.

Lets all stop messing about with racism, ***ism, gender-preference-ism, disabledism, spasticism, fatism, skinnyism and so on and get down to a bit of good old fashioned snowflakism: give 'em a good kicking, then they can get stressed out for a good reason.

[ramAnag]

'they' are those who think that there is strength in numbers when spreading a message of bigotry - we saw it manifested on here a few weeks ago on the Tommy Robinson thread, wherein DCFCA's chant-like hero-worship of TR showed him IMO to be one of those who feels comfortable hiding in a crowd to make his point but probably not so comfy with making it alone, or for that matter entering into a reasoned debate. Not worth our time of day in my view, but a dangerous and growing minority at present - witness the 'We're not in Europe Anymore' chants in Russia

The indoctrination comes from mainstream media who seem to have been given an agenda from someone, or to have decided on it themselves, to push liberalism down people's throats until (they hope) the population just give up and tow the liberal line. Its my view that this approach of pushing a POV because 'it obviously the right path' is yet another reason Brexit happened - the general population don't like to be told how to think, and seem as willing as ever to 'kick off' recently.

I don't actually think the world has become any more 'tolerant' in recent times, the intolerance has just become more insidious and softly spoken

Good answer to the first part...not sure about the second Andy.
I don’t think there’s been ‘indoctrination’ from the mainstream media as regards ‘liberalism’...after all the mainstream media includes Sky, the Mail, the Sun and the Express...hardly guardians of liberalism.
There’s maybe an agenda amongst the more sensitive/intelligent aspects of the media in relation to LGBT matters and I can understand some of your objection to that.
Perhaps we have moved too far towards ‘normalising’ rather than displaying tolerance, I’m not sure, but we maybe also have to remember that major changes in public attitudes over the last century or so, towards women and ethnic minorities for example, have been backed up by changes in the law.
Interesting debate...helped by the fact that all the participants are expressing reasonable if differing opinions and feel able to comment freely.

[Andy_Faber]

Good answer to the first part...not sure about the second Andy.
I don’t think there’s been ‘indoctrination’ from the mainstream media as regards ‘liberalism’...after all the mainstream media includes Sky, the Mail, the Sun and the Express...hardly guardians of liberalism.
There’s maybe an agenda amongst the more sensitive/intelligent aspects of the media in relation to LGBT matters and I can understand some of your objection to that.
Perhaps we have moved too far towards ‘normalising’ rather than displaying tolerance, I’m not sure, but we maybe also have to remember that major changes in public attitudes over the last century or so, towards women and ethnic minorities for example, have been backed up by changes in the law.
Interesting debate...helped by the fact that all the participants are expressing reasonable if differing opinions and feel able to comment freely.

A thought provoking response RA

[Romanis]

I think the LGQBT has everything already. They can marry, adopt and can't be discriminated.
To go on and say calling a gay a poofter or bender is criminal is wrong in my book.
Anyway if there's ever an issue with intolerant abuse in the stands, ban the offender and penalise the club. Let the normal process be done. Not some over sensitive gay fella shouting 'crime.' Let the FA, UEFA and FIFA decide.

[ramAnag]

I think the LGQBT has everything already. They can marry, adopt and can't be discriminated.
To go on and say calling a gay a poofter or bender is criminal is wrong in my book.
Anyway if there's ever an issue with intolerant abuse in the stands, ban the offender and penalise the club. Let the normal process be done. Not some over sensitive gay fella shouting 'crime.' Let the FA, UEFA and FIFA decide.

I fear the the word ‘they’ may betray your resentment and perhaps something stronger Rom.
When did we ever let the FA and UEFA decide the rules of society? They may have the right to ban certain behaviour from stadia but nothing more.

[Romanis]

The thread refers to action in stadia. Therefore let the football authorities deal with it unless it is so criminal that the police have to act.
Thomas wants chanting criminalised which I am against. Let the footy authorities determine what is acceptable. I think they are quite good so far without any need for legislation.
I am not anti-gay but think enough is enough. They'd got enough laws to protect them, there's nothing more for them push for.

[ramAnag]

The thread refers to action in stadia. Therefore let the football authorities deal with it unless it is so criminal that the police have to act.
Thomas wants chanting criminalised which I am against. Let the footy authorities determine what is acceptable. I think they are quite good so far without any need for legislation.
I am not anti-gay but think enough is enough. They'd got enough laws to protect them, there's nothing more for them push for.

But that’s the point Rom...clubs, and other organisations, can implement bans for certain types of behaviour but they need such behaviour to be in breach of the law in the first place and they invariably need the police to enforce the law in such circumstances. It’s not up to the football authorities to decide what is and isn’t legal and it certainly can’t be left to individual clubs.

I may be wrong but I’m struggling to think of an example where the ‘footy authorities’ have had to ‘determine what is acceptable without any need for legislation’.

[Andy_Faber]

But that’s the point Rom...clubs, and other organisations, can implement bans for certain types of behaviour but they need such behaviour to be in breach of the law in the first place and they invariably need the police to enforce the law in such circumstances. It’s not up to the football authorities to decide what is and isn’t legal and it certainly can’t be left to individual clubs.

I may be wrong but I’m struggling to think of an example where the ‘footy authorities’ have had to ‘determine what is acceptable without any need for legislation’.

It CAN be left to individual clubs, they can set whatever rules of entry they wish, but you are right that, in respect of anything significant, they seldom, if ever, do.

Back to the OP, Roms comment 'I am not anti-gay but think enough is enough' and mista's '(I) get a bit tired of the LGBT community wanting more and more' echoes my sentiment and, I reckon, that of many who keep their opinions fairly private. Once again I'll finger the BBC as pushing the LGBT agenda, it seems they will find any excuse to run at least one LGBT feature per news bulletin. Your comment about normalising versus tolerance is interesting but Geoff's 'if you shove too much LBGT **** down peoples throats then they will react against it' is even more telling, and I don't think attitudes have changed quite as much as you think, I think folk just keep their opinions to themselves more