Should some football interpretations or rules or be changed for the better?

[1959_60]

It's very easy to look back into the past with rose tinted glasses.

Cheating has always gone on. Even Jimmy Mac admitted that he would go down if there was a chance of a penalty. Difference was, there was no scrutiny from TV cameras in those days so if he, or anyone else, took a dive then it would be almost impossible to spot.
Franny Lee was the worst offender I have ever seen. Nothing new here folks.

Same with players surrounding the ref. That has happened all the time in my 56 year career as a spectator. Do any of you remember our battles with Leeds in the 60's for example? The ref was constantly surrounded with players from both sides.

As for bad language...give over. Industrial language has always been part of the game. Many of you go to non-league matches where you can hear it constantly. Nothing has changed over the years there either.

To be fair to the FA, they have tried a few times to improve things but it has never really happened. There was the "respect" thing towards officials which seemed to be working for about a season but has now largely disappeared. There was the law that only the captain could complain to the ref which has also seemed to have gone.

The game has prospered over the years...let's not mess about with the rules too much, eh?

I am against VAR because it is trying to make the game too clinical. It is a game for human beings and the less technology the better. Bad decisions from officials create great after match discussions which have always been part of the game. It has always been recognised that officials, players and managers make mistakes - and this actually adds to the spectacle and match experience.

[Supersub6]

Good post 1959_60, however, all that you have said is going to be affected by the introduction of VAR and it, along with other changes which FIFA will dream up, will change the game from what you described and it will only resemble the beautiful game.
FIFA will not be happy until they have stopped physical contact between players although they will still be able to barge the referee!

It will please many because there should be no injuries if players aren't allowed to tackle each other and I do know that they have been talking about trying to stop players heading the ball, which, although it is being discussed at junior level would filter through to senior level.
Never mind, there will always be a good game of golf or something to watch.

[sinkov]

Referee's need to be stronger and immediately yellow card anyone who gets in their face.

Indeed, but this begs the question, why aren't they stronger. I can't answer that, I don't know if anyone can, but despite 59/60s perfectly valid point that football has always had onfield problems, the game does seem to be descending rapidly into a state of anarchy, with referees, even with assistance of VAR, little more than bemused bystanders. In the last couple of games we've had a deliberate stamp on an ankle, and a head butt, both offences in full view of the officials, and both picked up by VAR, both routinely punishable by red cards, but neither was. We've had mass intimidation of a referee tolerated, it happened to Andy D'Urso at Old Trafford years ago, there was a clampdown and it was eradicated from the game, at least in this country, but now it's back and the referee clearly had no idea how to deal with it.

The thing is though, the referees do have the power to deal with it, just get the cards out, but they seem afraid to use the powers they have, which brings me back to my original question.....why ?

[Supersub6]

Michael Oliver dealt with it in the Juventus v Real Madrid game when he awarded the penalty in injury time and then sent Buffon off.
The police had to come and guard his house because he and his wife received threats, a tombstone was sent to their house and his wife had to delete her social media accounts because of the abuse that was being posted on there.
Fortunately, Michael is a strong person, as is his wife, however, things like this should not happen in connection with a game of football.
UEFA did back him and eventually suspended Buffon, however, the whole thing left a nasty taste as far as I am concerned because it has no place in any kind of sport.
In some countries referees have been shot for making decisions and yet we sit safely in the stand and criticise them for making or not making decisions. Easy job from the stand or in front of the TV set.

[1959_60]

I mentioned Leeds earlier and I believe that Don Revie was largely responsible for many dark arts which became part of our game in the 60's.

They really used to pressurise the ref during games, after a dive etc. They used to feign injury by rolling about like they had been shot, they were a very dirty team but most of their dirty work was skillfully done without the ref being aware.
They knew they could generally get away with it because the ref had just one chance to spot it in real time.

Nowadays it is practically impossible (in the big matches at least) to do this sort of thing without , quite rightly, being castigated in front of the whole nation.

Refs have always made baffling decisions but today they are scrutinised within an inch of their lives and I just would not consider being an official. Generally they are spot on and prove the commentators wrong more often than not but I agree with Sinkov that there have been some strange decisions this week.

Perhaps it is time to reintroduce the "respect" campaign and make it clear that they mean business this time. Having said that, certain players are renown for trying to ref the game and we recently benefited from this when Joey Barton was here.

[1959_60]

Any one remember this?

A World Cup qualifier between El Salvador and Honduras sparked a war in the 60's!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6HmuU8baMw

[sinkov]

Michael Oliver dealt with it in the Juventus v Real Madrid game when he awarded the penalty in injury time and then sent Buffon off.
The police had to come and guard his house because he and his wife received threats, a tombstone was sent to their house and his wife had to delete her social media accounts because of the abuse that was being posted on there.
Fortunately, Michael is a strong person, as is his wife, however, things like this should not happen in connection with a game of football.
UEFA did back him and eventually suspended Buffon, however, the whole thing left a nasty taste as far as I am concerned because it has no place in any kind of sport.
In some countries referees have been shot for making decisions and yet we sit safely in the stand and criticise them for making or not making decisions. Easy job from the stand or in front of the TV set.

This sort of thing is inexcusable obviously, but it will only escalate until the refs take action to assert their authority on the pitch, and they are backed up by whichever set of muppets is in charge of those officiating the game.

Once it becomes clear to players that they will not get away with abuse and intimidation of the officials, that it will adversely affect their chance of winning a game, then it will cease, but footballers will get away with whatever they can, and at the moment they appear to be able get away with anything just short of murder. Rugby and Ice Hockey are far more violent sports than football, but neither tolerates dissent or abuse of the officials, it's met with instant retribution, and guess what, neither has a problem with abuse or intimidation of officials.

So the appalling situation Oliver found himself in would never arise, Buffon wouldn't have behaved the way he did if he had been a rugby or ice hockey player, the referees and those charged with running football have it within their power to resolve this cancer in the game, but choose to turn a blind eye. I really don't know why.

[sinkov]

I mentioned Leeds earlier and I believe that Don Revie was largely responsible for many dark arts which became part of our game in the 60's.

They really used to pressurise the ref during games, after a dive etc. They used to feign injury by rolling about like they had been shot, they were a very dirty team but most of their dirty work was skillfully done without the ref being aware.
They knew they could generally get away with it because the ref had just one chance to spot it in real time.

Nowadays it is practically impossible (in the big matches at least) to do this sort of thing without , quite rightly, being castigated in front of the whole nation.

Refs have always made baffling decisions but today they are scrutinised within an inch of their lives and I just would not consider being an official. Generally they are spot on and prove the commentators wrong more often than not but I agree with Sinkov that there have been some strange decisions this week.

Perhaps it is time to reintroduce the "respect" campaign and make it clear that they mean business this time. Having said that, certain players are renown for trying to ref the game and we recently benefited from this when Joey Barton was here.

Revie's Leeds 59/60, an early version of Colombia, but they could play when they had to, one of the best football teams I've ever seen. Besides all the sort of stuff you mention they also had a rota for fouling, once one of them had been cautioned he would back off and another one start dishing it out, once he was cautioned, another one took over, ensuring they could kick their way through 90 minutes and keep 11 men on the pitch.

This Respect campaign 59/60, I could never quite see the point of it before, nor can I now, except as another aspect of the refs copping out of doing their job, and taking responsibilty for behaviour on the pitch. What do we need a campaign for, it's all covered under Law 12, using abusive or offensive language is a sending off offence, but once again the refs, for whatever reason, choose not to use the powers they already have. OK, I know in this day and age the F word is in much more common usage, but the refs can hear or not hear whatever they like when the players are shouting at each other, but they can adopt a zero tolerance policy when they're being addressed, but they choose not to. Refs again, their own worst enemy.

And I'm not having it that it can't be done on a football pitch. There was a female ref at Clitheroe not long ago, the players were told to cut out the F word, and they did, not once did you hear it all afternoon from any player on either team. Next home game, male ref, effing and blinding non stop all afternoon again.

[exilecanada]

My question would be "why add another two?"

Only the captain should seek clarification from the Ref on his decisions.

Good question. I came up with two alternates to cover the fact some teams have the goalie as captain, Burnley for instance. I can’t see a goalie running the length of the pitch to dispute a decision made 100 yards away in the opposition penalty area, then running all the way back. Having three choices would probably ensure one is in the area of the dispute.

[Supersub6]

sinkov --when I approched the FA about the use of foul and abusive language they said that it was acceptable in the leagues because it was industrial language and that the field was the players' work place. They stressed that it was not acceptable outside of the pyramid system and wanted officials refereeing in County FA authorised leagues to d othings to the letter of the law and many followed this directive. The result was that many grassroots players were getting suspended and fined for swearing whilst they could watch it being ignored at league level. The FA would not accept that the example should be set by those playing at the top level and insisted that it had to come from grassroots. Crazy!!