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Thread: OT: Old Mrs. May's fudge shoppe

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    You can make a moral case for that kind of opinion, ie if you don't work you don't eat, but on a practical level the kind of inequality you get in societies like that create numerous other problems like crime, corruption and so on.
    ....but in the UK, all those "safety nets" are in place for the needy....but places like St Anns and the Meadows are still hot-beds of crime?....in fact various news media were reporting London now as the "knife-crime capital of the World" and I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that all of the knife-wielding thugs are getting enough to eat

    No, there is something else wrong with the UK, but I cannot put my finger on the cause....I agree with you that in countries like Mexico, corruption is a huge problem....but that is people that actually ARE WORKING but in a position of power...ie a policeman earning £1.50 an hour decides to take a £10 bribe to ignore a traffic violation or a government official accepting £500 to "speed up" a planning application....here, it is seen as part of the cost of doing business

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarquinbeech View Post
    ....but in the UK, all those "safety nets" are in place for the needy....but places like St Anns and the Meadows are still hot-beds of crime?....in fact various news media were reporting London now as the "knife-crime capital of the World" and I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that all of the knife-wielding thugs are getting enough to eat

    No, there is something else wrong with the UK, but I cannot put my finger on the cause....I agree with you that in countries like Mexico, corruption is a huge problem....but that is people that actually ARE WORKING but in a position of power...ie a policeman earning £1.50 an hour decides to take a £10 bribe to ignore a traffic violation or a government official accepting £500 to "speed up" a planning application....here, it is seen as part of the cost of doing business
    Much rather stay here thanks

  3. #273
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    Driller quoted "The second point is that presumably Mexicans are quite happy to have a mega factory opening there, in fact if they had a few more they might not migrate to the US in such large numbers. How can you complain about Mexicans migrating to the US and complain when they are given employment opportunities at home?"

    Yes Mexicans are delighted to have BMW opening down the road, and yes it might stop a few thousand trying to climb Trump's non-existent fence but the last bit of your sentence is quite weird.

    When have I ever complained about Mexicans making a "run for the border"? (actually a fair proportion of them are from countries to the South of Mexico, but who get free passage northwards).......and when and where have I ever complained about a BMW factory opening up.....admit it Driller, you just made that bit up!

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapperleypie View Post
    I think you have contradicted yourself there

    1st sentence - where is greater social advantage in cheaper fruit?

    2nd sentence - we all want cheaper food in times of low wage growth.
    Great example of selective quoting, anyone reading the full opinion, would get the point.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    A couple of hours ago I said unequal societies are undesirable.

    I'm disturbed you don't seem to like hard working people from other countries being able to better themselves? I'm alright Jack?
    The figure below shows that if you do let “hard working people from other countries” move around a continent, then you do create unequal societies, at least in terms of GDP Per Capita growth which has a close correlation with the trend in living standards over time.

    You’ll also see that those countries that have had the fastest rate of growth of population (examples UK, France Sweden) have had lower rates of GDP Per Capita growth than the countries whose populations have grown slower (eg. Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria).
    You might say well that’s great because the GDP Per Capita is growing fastest in those “poorer” countries but you need to bear in mind they are starting from a much lower base:

    Actual GDP Per Capita in France, Sweden and UK is around $48,000, opposed to an average of $29,000 in Latvia, Lithuania & Bulgaria.

    It’s a matter of opinion I suppose whether you see movement of workers having this effect as a "good thing". To be in favour of it you have to accept that workers’ wages in the receiving countries will stagnate (along with their living standard), societies in the countries of origin will be stripped of workers (and continuity) and that therefore Gross GDP in the countries of origin will also stagnate.

    Surely this creates the “unequal societies” you say you don’t desire?

    It used to be that “the Left” celebrated Unions associated with nationalised industries and demonised anyone who crossed picket lines to undermine wages. But now it seems that “the Left” support the mass immigration of workers into a country who undermine wages and any indigenous people who oppose this are called racists. Many working people who voted Brexit have probably just seen the manifestation of this in their daily lives and decided they just don’t want it any more.

    Name:  GDP Per Capita 2010-2017.jpg
Views: 111
Size:  19.5 KB

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    You can make a moral case for that kind of opinion, ie if you don't work you don't eat, but on a practical level the kind of inequality you get in societies like that create numerous other problems like crime, corruption and so on.
    It's not the inequality that causes the crime, corruption etc., but it is the way people react to the 'inequality'. We seem to have a 'I want what everyone else has' attitude in society. That's not how it works though, we need to recognise that some have more than others. However, that said - those who do have much have a responsibility to watch out for those who have little, or nothing - together (imo) with a responsibility not to 'flaunt it' but to realise how fortunate they are.

    'The best things in life are not things'

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpie_mania View Post
    Much rather stay here thanks
    Believe me, MM, there are many days spent here in sweltering 30 degree temps, where a glistening tear, or two, rolls down my gammon-face as I wistfully recall a Pork Farms pie with Colman's mustard, a huge Ginsters Pasty with a healthy splodge of Daddies Sauce.....and a pint or two of Theakstons XB, washed down with a chaser of Old Peculier.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by AltyPie View Post
    The figure below shows that if you do let “hard working people from other countries” move around a continent, then you do create unequal societies, at least in terms of GDP Per Capita growth which has a close correlation with the trend in living standards over time.

    You’ll also see that those countries that have had the fastest rate of growth of population (examples UK, France Sweden) have had lower rates of GDP Per Capita growth than the countries whose populations have grown slower (eg. Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria).
    You might say well that’s great because the GDP Per Capita is growing fastest in those “poorer” countries but you need to bear in mind they are starting from a much lower base:

    Actual GDP Per Capita in France, Sweden and UK is around $48,000, opposed to an average of $29,000 in Latvia, Lithuania & Bulgaria.

    It’s a matter of opinion I suppose whether you see movement of workers having this effect as a "good thing". To be in favour of it you have to accept that workers’ wages in the receiving countries will stagnate (along with their living standard), societies in the countries of origin will be stripped of workers (and continuity) and that therefore Gross GDP in the countries of origin will also stagnate.

    Surely this creates the “unequal societies” you say you don’t desire?

    It used to be that “the Left” celebrated Unions associated with nationalised industries and demonised anyone who crossed picket lines to undermine wages. But now it seems that “the Left” support the mass immigration of workers into a country who undermine wages and any indigenous people who oppose this are called racists. Many working people who voted Brexit have probably just seen the manifestation of this in their daily lives and decided they just don’t want it any more.

    Name:  GDP Per Capita 2010-2017.jpg
Views: 111
Size:  19.5 KB
    C r a p graph so for anyone bothered here's the source of the raw data:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...PP)_per_capita

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Pie View Post
    Did you have the pleasure of attending any of those 'back to work' group sessions? That's what really opened my eyes. They were a load of bullsh!t, but when asked to "name three things you are good at", one chavvy bloke answered "sleeping, smoking and drinking" to loud laughter from his mates. It was obvious they had no intention to work, but the job centre staff seemed powerless to do anything about it, in fact they just seemed to accept it. I felt sympathy for those genuinely seeking employment, because they would have been bracketed with the shirkers by many as benefit scroungers.
    No I didn't, and on my second visit I realised that my cousin worked there as an interviewer and was she made sure I spent as little time in there as possible.
    My in-laws grew up in Bulwell and say it was lovely until the Meadows was flattened and there was an influx from there.

  10. #280
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    Jun 2009
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    I work somewhere there are Polish, African, Caribbean and English workers and you know what, some are lazy and some work hard in EVERY one of those groups. It's a myth foreigners work harder than the English, it all depends on the individuals attitude rather than country of origin. If I had to say the worst out of those it would be black African women due to their attitude mostly. The English here work really hard for minimum wage, just cause there is alot of lazy chavs in this country there are also alot of lazy foreigners.

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