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Thread: D Day for Brexit

  1. #21
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    I can assure you that I am not laughing Sinkov. And I won't be laughing in five years when we will all be worse off. Well, most of us.

    If you are happy to leave it all to Theresa and the EU then that may be you choice - it certainly isn't mine.

    Democracy didn't end in June 2016 you know and this is such a massive decision that we cannot leave it to a Government who are obviously making decisions on party political grounds instead of the future of our country.

    It seems like everyone on here is against the deal - yet do not want the opportunity for their opinion to be heard and heeded.

    I find this bizzare.

  2. #22
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    And one of Brexit's main cheerleaders, The Daily Mail, is about to be taken over by Remoaners in the Autumn.

    The incoming editor, Geordie Greig (taking over from Paul Dacre) is a staunch Remoaner and, with the owners of the paper also big Remoaners, it will be interesting to see what their new stance will be.

    Nick Cohen
    @NickCohen4
    Mail journalist to me last night on the panic the imminent arrival of Geordie Greig is causing: "All the leavers are becoming remainers. It's the only way they can remain in their jobs"

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    I can assure you that I am not laughing Sinkov. And I won't be laughing in five years when we will all be worse off. Well, most of us.

    If you are happy to leave it all to Theresa and the EU then that may be you choice - it certainly isn't mine.

    Democracy didn't end in June 2016 you know and this is such a massive decision that we cannot leave it to a Government who are obviously making decisions on party political grounds instead of the future of our country.

    It seems like everyone on here is against the deal - yet do not want the opportunity for their opinion to be heard and heeded.

    I find this bizzare.

    Theresa May said no deal is better than a bad deal, but the Remoaners in league with the EU have taken away the option of no deal. So a bad deal it is. My opinion was heard once and not heeded, I find it bizarre that anyone thinks it would be heeded the next time.

  4. #24
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    The referendum question was:

    “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”

    Now, as we know, leaving the EU WILL happen. But "leaving" meant different things to different people.

    Some were happy to have a very soft Brexit, similar to the deal announced last night.
    Others wanted a "Full English Brexit" as proposed by Boris.
    Some would have been happy just to keep foreigners out.
    Etc etc.

    So whichever form of Brexit we decide on will have had limited support.

    We are leaving the EU. We will be no more in it than Norway is. Do you think Norway is in the EU? (clue...the answer is "No")

    Now, once the final deal has been agreed I think it essential that we decide if we like it. Governments come and go, but this will decide our future as a country for generations. It's far too important a decision to leave to a few career politicians.

    If we like it, we will vote for it.
    If we don't like it then either;
    A/. We have a complete break from the EU
    B/. We stay in the EU.

    Let the people decide otherwise there will be mass unrest in the nation which none of us want. And Corbyn will walk the next election by default.

  5. #25
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    59-60 So now it’s two referenda to try to get the result you want. How very EU.
    By the the EU will suffer too and is the throes of losing Merkel.

  6. #26
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    59 you’re making it up to suit your own purposes.
    Leaving means leaving. If you leave home you don’t stay at some level. Your theory is the some remainders might want a soft Brexit, but I doubt many leavers wanted to hang on to any EU apron strings.

  7. #27
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    OC, you are making a case for a peoples vote here.

    If the deal on the table is not what they want, and they don't want to hang on to any EU apron strings, then shouldn't their views be considered by the Government?

    The only way we will find out what the people of Britain think about the deal is to ask them and to act on their wishes.

    Just like we did with the referendum.

  8. #28
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    Reminds me of Bob Monkhouse saying people laughed when he said he was going to be a comedian, but they’re not laughing now

  9. #29
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    OC, I am not trying to overturn the referendum result - I just thing it correct that the people decide.

    It seems to me that people on both sides of the argument don't like the deal. That is the majority of the country.

    If you are still happy to let our Theresa make whatever decision she likes on this issue, without public support, then you have a different idea of democracy than me.

    I reckon that of the 48% that voted to remain almost all of them would not be happy with this deal.

    And of the 52% that voted to leave I reckon half of them will be happy with the deal - tops.

    So, of the people who voted in the referendum, I estimate about 26% of them would have voted for this deal.

    I think we should find out by having a peoples vote. Accept/reject and leave/reject and stay.

    Why are you frightened at asking the people? Do you not believe in listening to what the people want? Or is it the case that you realise that there is little public support for a hard Brexit...but want to keep pushing for one anyway?

  10. #30
    Corbyn wants an easy exit, that's what we have got.

    JC rules OK?

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  11. #31
    I've never understood how someone God knows how many thousand miles away from the UK gets so involved in another country's politics?

    May I suggest you concentrate on cleaning up your own backyard, which appears to me to be overflowing with the brown stuff?

  12. #32
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    "We are leaving the EU. We will be no more in it than Norway is. Do you think Norway is in the EU? (clue...the answer is "No")"

    59/60, you say we are leaving the EU. In which case can you confirm,

    1) We will not be members of the Single Market.
    2) There will be an end to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in the UK.
    3) We will not be in the Customs Union.
    4) We will be totally free to strike trade deals with any and every other country in the world, as we choose.
    5) We will have complete control over who enters the UK from the EU.
    6) We will not be contributing huge sums to the EU budget.
    7} We will have full control of fishing rights in British waters.

    Nothing contentious there or onerous there, in fact virtually every country in the world outside of the EU, about 170 of them, survives and prospers under similar conditions. Just seven items which, if achieved, I think most fair minded people would agree was a fair approximation of what Brexit should look like. I have no idea what our government is now proposing, if I follow this ongoing debacle closely any longer I might lose the will to live, so I tend to ignore it now. Consequently I have no idea what our proposed deal is, so you tell me 59/60, does it meet my 7 seven requirements for Brexit ? If it does then I'm content, I can live with the inevitable fudging, compromises and blurring of red lines that will also have to happen. If it doesn't, then it isn't Brexit and we haven't left the EU.

  13. #33
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    if this is the cabinets "agreed" position for our opening negotiating with the EU, then what will the end deal be like once Barnier and the eurocrats have had their say???? Being sold down a certain swanee river comes to mind! Very dangerous potentially as people can now see that voting the "wrong" way will not be allowed to interfere with the globalist agenda. George Soros et al will be pleased.

  14. #34
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    Why are you frightened at asking the people? Do you not believe in listening to what the people want? Or is it the case that you realise that there is little public support for a hard Brexit...but want to keep pushing for one anyway?

    I’m not, I think there isn’t time. You cannot come up with a question that could encompass all the issues and meet an over 50% of the population. Then it would take 3 months for campaigning and informing. Trump and Putin would get up to dirty tricks. The SNP would look to whip up issues for breaking up the uk.
    Referenda are the tools of unelected dictators. What people want changes on a daily basis that’s why we have a Parliament.
    Parliament is elected to represent the people and they will get a vote to accept or reject the deal whatever it is. If they reject it it’s a hard Brexit.
    What I want will have no bearing on what happens. The EEC was what we joined and was good, but the EU has morphed into a monolithic civil service dictatorship that doesn’t listen or respond and thus undermines countries and the will of the people. It’s just not for me. It’s days are numbered anyway once Merkel goes.

  15. #35
    This has now turned into the biggest political faux pas ever. I have lost the will to live trying to understand the whole list of ramifications and consequences.

    The only thing I can determine is that EU member states private company investment with the UK is seriously jeopardised, foreign nationals can enter the UK via Northern Ireland's borders with Eire, Spain wants Gibraltar back and I can't get tickets to watch Burnley play in Aberdeen.

    Fcuk Brexit, let's remain.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier View Post

    Fcuk Brexit, let's remain.
    There you have it, incontrovertible evidence that the Establishment always wins in the end. Even BT, a wily, experienced, political animal, who knows all their devious methods and tricks, has been brow-beaten into submission in the end.

    It's sad, but there it is.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by sinkov View Post
    There you have it, incontrovertible evidence that the Establishment always wins in the end. Even BT, a wily, experienced, political animal, who knows all their devious methods and tricks, has been brow-beaten into submission in the end.

    It's sad, but there it is.
    I honestly don't know if these Tory barstewards are brilliantly duplicitous and rammed full of political wiliness or simply as thick as treacle and really do not have a clue as to what they are doing. May I respectfully suggest the latter?


    If Corbyn would stop worrying about the timetable for the number 58 bus (last week's PM question time) and come up with a viable Brexit plan, he might even get elected into number 10 via the number 58 bus.

  18. #38
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    From what I have seen so far we will be half in and half out. Whilst Theresa claims that freedom of movement will end, she has not ruled out a "preferential deal" for EU citizens. Our trade with the EU will still be subject to ECJ rulings but the ECJ will not be used for our domestic stuff.

    We will still have frictionless trade with the EU but we will have to obey their rules. We will be a rule taker not a rule maker.

    Can someone explain how this deal is better than the one we have now please?

  19. #39
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    BT
    Jeremy and viable plans don’t seem to go together, any plans seem to be give aways without any thought of who pays.
    He couldn’t get all his MPs singing from his hymn sheet either so a Jeremy Brexit would be even worse chaos.
    However as the Tory Brexiteers plot to oust Theresa, he may get the chance.
    Heaven help us all!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier View Post
    I've never understood how someone God knows how many thousand miles away from the UK gets so involved in another country's politics?

    May I suggest you concentrate on cleaning up your own backyard, which appears to me to be overflowing with the brown stuff?
    If that is aimed at me then I am in Blacko not thousands of miles away, we got one of your commie loons running the place back home for 3 years til she has given all the money away so I bailed out for a while.

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