D Day for Brexit

[1959_60]

OC, your version of Brexit means that we will have to sort out a trade deal with them and continue to be partners with them on some matters (you have quoted defence).

Fair enough. But that is just YOUR opinion. Some people want a complete break, others want closer ties of a greater or lesser degree.
Some people like Theresa's plan, others don't. There must be hundreds of different Brexits but the Quitters cannot coalesce on any single version.

Like I said, there is no consensus. You want a specific type of Brexit while others want a different kind. We are in a complete en passe.

I can speak from recent experience about trading internationally.

Until I retired last year I spent 25 years importing and exporting IT equipment. Over these years we developed trading partners right round the world. In this time we developed trust and understanding between us, which money can't buy.
For logistical reasons the contacts we established were around 75% EU and 25% the rest of the world.
Trading in the EU is truly as simple as trading within the UK. Payment is made and the goods were shipped and delivered within two days.
With the rest of the world it is nowhere near as simple. We deal with the USA, Asia, Africa.
Take Kenya for example. To supply them with goods we have to fill in ten different forms. The goods have to be inspected by a third party before they can ship. The time from shipping to delivery is around 6-8 weeks. In this time the customer is vulnerable to exchange rate fluctuations, which can turn a good deal into a bad deal whilst the goods are still on the water.
The same is true for every other non EU country we deal with. Each country has it's own requirements for form filling etc. which have to be understood and adhered to. Each countries requirements are different.

Having spent 25 years building up solid relationships within the EU I am at a loss why we are intending to put it all at risk. It was never "EU or rest of the world". It was always "both". If there is good business to be done in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA etc then OF COURSE we did it. We spent 25 years exploring and developing these markets.

So if we lose a big chunk of our EU business it is just not possible to replace it with non-EU business...because we have already explored these markets, and operate within them NOW.
I recently spoke to an Hiungarian customer of ours, who is VERY important to our business. He explained that his company are reluctantly putting measures in place for after we leave the EU to replace us as their main supplier.

It makes me angry when I hear politicians who obviously have no idea about foreign trade say "We do not need the EU. We will open up bigger markets when we leave"

Totally deluded and ill informed.

[ClaretinBudapest]

If we had shown that we were prepared to walk away and go for a hard Brexit at the first sign of intransigence and bullying by Brussels they would have capitulated a long time ago and we could have come to an agreement which suits both parties.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

If the quality is right and the price is competitive we will always be able to export.

I am so glad Poundwhatsit has gone to the wall, it will mean we no longer have to endure the sight of super container ships arriving into Felixstowe from China full of absolute crap!

[1959_60]

That's an important point BT!

I think we all remember the crud that used to fill our shelves with stickers on saying "Made in China" or "Made in Singapore".
Many of these items were useless, and some were dangerous. Plenty of them were kids toys.

This changed due to EU safety and standards regulations which guaranteed the quality and safety standards.

Once we leave we will be able to import the cheap crap again and set our own standards.

Cue a shed loads of Arthur Daileys rubbing their hands and making a killing once more selling cheap shoddy goods.

[oldcolner]

59
you say people don’t want to sell goods or buy them from the EU. Who on earth wants that?
You make up different sorts of Brexit, how many of them. There is only one

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

That was the question and leaving was chosen by the majority. That means out. All the rest is a smokescreen from those in political parties and civil service looking for the easy option and the losers who won’t accept and are trying to change the result.


From Laura Kuenssberg

"If you use metaphors to explain this, Eurosceptics as a character are more like Begbie from Transporting, someone who will do anything to win their fight.

"On the other side, the Stephens Hammonds and the Remainers are more like Margo Leadbetter from The Good Life.

[Supersub6]

I voted remain and accept that I lost a democratic vote. Since the vote, I have expected that those responsible for ensuring that the wishes of the majority were kept would get on with things, although I accepted that we were battling against 27 other countries who, because of our financial input, would drive a hard bargain in order to let us leave.

What has happened in the past 2 years has just been one complete mess and it does not seem to get any clearer as to what is actually going to happen. Fortunately, I do not worry unduly about things like this because I have cast my vote and lost and just expect them to get on with it. Que sera sera is the only way to look at it.

[1959_60]

Supersub, we could simply walk away tomorrow and there is nothing the EU could do about it.

That is in OUR gift.

But very few people want a complete break - hence the horse trading and bickering.

So let's not blame the EU for doing their job. They don't want us to leave - that is OUR decision.

[sinkov]

But the party changed their mind Sinkov
- who cares about election pledges.

But they can't unwrite their manifesto OC. Of course they have no principles, they can ignore election pledges, they can threaten de-selection, they can do what they like, but no party can call those who vote to keep manifesto pledges rebels.

[sinkov]

"To say that "I voted to leave the EU, I've already stated what I, and imo the vast majority of leave voters, think that entails." I'm sorry Sinkov, but I don't buy that. What evidence do you have that the vast majority agree with your version of Brexit?"


Dear me 59/60, it's like trying to swim through a barrel of treacle with clogs on, but I'll try again.

There was a referendum two years ago, before the referendum there was a long, many said too long, campaign when both sides put their case. During that campaign it was pointed out by BOTH sides what voting to leave the EU would entail.

We would have to leave the Customs Union and the Single Market, this was highlighted on numerous occasions, especially by the Remain campaign, as two very good reasons for actually staying in. Ending the jurisdiction of the European court in the UK, this was why the EU made such a fuss over EU citizen's rights. An end to vast payments into the EU budget, no longer being subject to EU laws and regulations, that was the point of transferring them by Act of Parliament into UK law, so we could amend them at our leisure later, taking back control over fishing rights, taking back control over immigration, I might have forgotten some things, but those were the main points I think.

That's what we were told we'd be voting for by both sides, have you forgotten already ? That's how I know what leave voters want, it's not my version of Brexit, it's what was on offer to the electorate, we all voted for the same thing, leaving the EU and all that it would entail, as explained during the campaign. May's first two big speeches confirmed those points, but she has since given up on some crucial aspects, to the point that her version of Brexit now bears little resemblance to what 17 million people voted for.

[sinkov]

That's an important point BT!

I think we all remember the crud that used to fill our shelves with stickers on saying "Made in China" or "Made in Singapore".
Many of these items were useless, and some were dangerous. Plenty of them were kids toys.

This changed due to EU safety and standards regulations which guaranteed the quality and safety standards.

Once we leave we will be able to import the cheap crap again and set our own standards.

Cue a shed loads of Arthur Daileys rubbing their hands and making a killing once more selling cheap shoddy goods.

I'm not sure if you're an agent of Project Fear 59/60, or just unaware that you're spouting nonsense. The Great Repeal Bill 2016/European (Withdrawal) Act 2018, transposes EU laws and regs into UK law. The scenario you describe will not happen, it cannot happen, when we leave the EU, regulations and standards will stay the same, nothing will change.