Reply With QuoteOk talk me through it. You are a self-made man by the sound of things. I assume you had no parental support both monetary and otherwise to achieve your goals. How were you educated? How did you getcontacts?
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You've inferred a lot from my sourcing the full quote!Originally Posted by rolymiller
Glad you acknowledge that there will always be winners and losers and not everyone can win/succeed. Of course not everyone starts out with an equal chance. There are many reasons why you might start ahead or behind, but you like to focus on just one of them - wealth. There were a lot of very successful men playing football last night who started out from very poor financial backgrounds, but they still had massive advantages. Maybe they should have been metaphorically (or maybe literally) crippled in childhood to level up the playing field. The problem is that the physically ungifted can never do well, no matter how hard they work. Born into money....born with superior physical gifts....where's the difference?
Going back to wealth, the most able will find their way through, no matter where they start, and the most useless/feckless will throw away any advantages they have. In the middle, some who start with an advantage will get a bit more than they deserve, and some who start with a disadvantage will get a bit less than they deserve. Do I care about that? Not really. Anyone who's done well and is able to give the next generation a leg up should be able to do so without feeling guilty about it in my view.
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Ok talk me through it. You are a self-made man by the sound of things. I assume you had no parental support both monetary and otherwise to achieve your goals. How were you educated? How did you getcontacts?
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most people have support from family either biological or not.
2 ways of getting money.
1) education
2)be willing to take risks.(all successfull people took a risk or gamble at some point)
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Is there any interest in an economics workshop, happy to lend my knowledge for free, 12 papers over 12 weeks.
All political persuasions welcome..,no idiots though
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Yes, started with nothing....council house, comprehensive school, typical start really. Parental support in terms of a roof and food on the table, but not a great deal of money kicking around. Nobody in the family had any business experience or useful contacts....in fact I didn't know anyone who did anything other than manual shift work apart from a local grocery shopkeeper and a bloke who had a tailors shop.
So any success I had wasn't/isn't down to family money, contacts, education or having any kind of a leg up. Hard work? Not really, more a case of looking for opportunities, trying stuff out, failing quite a bit and then keeping going until something clicked.
For my kids it's been different. They've worked much harder than I ever did, but also benefitted from a stronger base than I had. I know that's what you object to, but I make no apology for it. You do the best for your kids, as my parents did for me. You work with what you've got and from where you are. A massive part of having a degree of success for me, is being able to provide a platform for future generations to build from. Now you might argue that that should be future generations of everyone's kids - and without boring you, I've done my fair share in that regard - but I think it's only natural that it begins at home.
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My parents were working class, both born from families that had no money, both had a strong work ethic.
My parents scrapped hard for money to bring up me and my sister, they went out to earn it.
What they didn’t do is sit on their arses waiting for somebody to come along giving them handouts.
Oh, how the world has changed.
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@ raginpup
I love the way that you demand evidence from others yet make claims like: I think it is fair to say that Labour's manifesto commitments, if came to pass, would force business to rethink their strategy, adjust its operations but they would continue to operate within the UK as the alternatives aren't attractive enough to relocate, which, if you're being honest for a moment, is an expression of faith, or, perhaps more accurately, a blind expression of hope, because that is what you want to believe.
Is the bottom line is that you can't escape form the logic that increasing corporate taxation in the UK makes the country less attractive to operate in, so you squeeze your eyes tight shut, cross your fingers and hope?
What sort of 'adjustment to operations' from business falling short of stopping investment in it's existing operations or abandoning the UK are you anticipating and hoping for?
You suggest that your advice to work colleagues is 'keep doing the same thing and you'll get the same results'. It's good advice although Einstein's version was more eloquent. It's strange that you offer that advice, however, whilst advocating a return to the tax and spend policies that so spectacularly failed the country in the 70s. Practise what you preach maybe?
On the subject of what works, you may also reflect on the Joseph Rowntree Foundation Report that MMM linked to a few months ago which confirmed the progress that had been made in reducing poverty in this country, which progress only faltered after the financial crisis of 2008 and the aftermath thereof. Alternatively you could reflect on the historical and current consequences of Socialist economics around the world.
I post on these threads because they interest me. That's the same for you I assume. I know that you started posting on football threads after someone asked why you only posted on political ones a while ago, but I'm not so in need of the approval of others.
Last edited by KerrAvon; 13-07-2018 at 04:39 AM.
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I'm sorry if my car example didn't work for you (I was writing it over breakfast). It was not my intention to give the impression that I think you thick.
Let me try again. Dealer A and B offer you the same basic price.
When it comes to options, Dealer A wants £500 for the climate control, £400 for the snazzy alloys and £200 for the must have cherry red paint, so £1100 total.
Dealer B wants £525 for the climate control, £425 for the alloys, but only £125 for the paint, so £1075.
It's a no brainier, dealer B it is.
Before the contract is formed, dealer B rings up and explains that he has encountered a problem un sourcing the red paint, so the price is now £175, so the total cost is now £1125.
Logic now dictates that A is the obvious choice, because he is cheaper. On your logic, however, you'd still be buying from B because the red paint job is still cheaper there than at A.
Now think widget man where climate control is, say, energy costs, the alloys are transport costs and the paint is the tax take.
I truly hope that you now get the point.
There is little point in railing against me on the minimum wage. There is a difference between explaining the consequence of a policy and disagreeing with it.
I support an increase in the minimum wage. But compare Labour policy - increasing the minimum wage and corporation tax and that of Osborne - increasing the minimum wage but reducing the corporate tax rate in part to offset the consequences of that. Which is more job friendly?
Last edited by KerrAvon; 13-07-2018 at 05:12 AM.
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Kerr, please stop including other costs, the other costs arent included in this argument,what don't you get about that, you're picking figures out of thin air trying to justify a false position.....
Please take into account the cost of corporation tax, for each dealer, one in the UK and one in Germany, their costs are in line with what the corporation tax rate is, so for example the German dealer will be 10% dearer, the UK raises their corporation tax 5%, this means that it is still cheaper by 5% than the German dealer, regardless of other costs, because corporation tax is already included in all those costs...or you could just do it like this....
Take all costs out of the equation, here's the only equation that matters in this argument;
So, let's take Germany as our example, the UK has a corporation tax of 20%, if Corbyn gets in power we raise that to 25%....Germany's corporation tax rate is running at 30%...
So, we've gone from having a tax at a rate of 10% lower to one of 5% lower...so any companies will obviously be LESS attracted, but will still be better off here.
This question is purely about corporation tax, get with the programme eh....
I see you have mentioned Osborne and put him up as a shining light of economics, please tell me how much the national debt has risen under his tenure, while we're at it, the London Standard has just released it's figures and has lost £10 million since he took over as editor, yep, he's got his finger on the pulse that lad.
Last edited by millmoormagic; 13-07-2018 at 06:36 AM.
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Isn't that what we all do Lasterman? i don't think roly is objecting to you looking out for your kids is he?
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