Reply With QuoteEven if they got in they would have the exact same problems as they're split over Europe as well.Originally Posted by Timbertop
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Good point. Pity about the economy though
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Even if they got in they would have the exact same problems as they're split over Europe as well.
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That will chime with how many times you've predicted Corbyn and Labour would be destroyed by the electorate .
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The point is that I think that most of the general public do not want a hard Brexit, a path that May in balance was trying to propose. Yet we seem to have some unelected politicians in the party that are forcing us towards a hard Brexit? Isn't that what seems to be happening?
Labour aren't in power.
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Yes his view is that we are leaving the EU and honouring the referendum result .
I'd suggest Starmer would prefer a softer brexit and he seems to have a better handle on this than anybody I've seen involved in the process , not because he's Labour but because he just does , simple as that .
Davies seemed out of his depth and was undermined frequently by the hard core tory brexiters , something May failed to control effectively , I'm surprised he lasted so long to be honest .
Johnson will do almost anything to feather his own nest , in his head he thinks he can be PM one day but that's entitlement for you , there is absolutely no way he will win a leadership contest against May , not a chance .
Personally I think Labour took a shot to the ribs today with Johnson's departure , he's the useful idiot , does more damage to their party than he's given credit for .
May inherited this from Cameron and his attempts to reunite the tory party , let's be clear on this , the referendum was about the tory party and not what's best for the UK .
So they own this in my opinion , lock , stock and barrel and history will judge them accordingly .
Whether holding office would make Corbyn more effective at knocking the rest of the party into shape is the real question and not sat in opposition .
Holding power with a majority gives a leader more clout something May threw away so I'd suggest yes he would bring the party in to line far more effectively than May .
In opposition he will struggle and not just because of brexit .
UK politics on the whole is in a bad place , divisions , charlatans , self servers and very little honour .
Pyssed off with it as the next man in all honesty .
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I think you've missed the point of what has been happening over the last few days. May and the cabinet have settled on a 'soft' Brexit policy, hence the 'hard' Brexiteer members quitting and doubtless considering whether they can oust May and pursue their own vision.
Who are the unelected politicians of whom you speak?
So you don't think that the majority of people want a hard Brexit. What do you propose then? A second referendum on the exit deal. Is that Labour or hasn't the party decided yet? It would be nice to know, just in case their is another General Election.
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Why do the Tories own Brexit? They gave the country a choice and the country chose. Surely it's owned by the electorate and, in particular, Leave voters such as yourself? Why did you vote Leave? I recall that in the run up to the vote was about people speaking Polish around you at work. Since then you have adopted a hokey cokey opinion on the single market, wanting to be in one minute and out the next.
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Think there is an easy cop out in all this. Put it to a second vote for the electorate but something on the lines of: do you want to return to the European union as it was or do you want to forget about the whole shebang and to it alone. At least we will know where we all stand and can start planning for it because I fear the govt will have made no plans if there isn't an agreement come next year. It's a mess and it was so predictable this would all turn out to be a monumental balls up.
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To be fair KerrAvon it was Cameron and his Government who proposed and held the referendum in the first place in an ill conceived bid to unite the long running disagreements about it within the party. The term “eurosceptic” predated his tenure
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Ah slight ad haminem , one day you'll leave the whig at work .
I voted leave because I never liked the way the EU had so much control over our country , as a trading model it was fine .
One of my best friends is Polish who I met at work , round at our house for drinks , meals with his partner , he's since left the UK and gone back to Poland , we communicate regularly and both my partner and myself have invites over there anytime we can .
Spending the whole week working with Poles on that particular job and not able to join in the conversation and banter would pyss off most people especially when the Poles could speak perfectly well in english and have me included and not ostracised .
The court room style picture you are painting doesn't exist except for a particularly boring and tough week feeling like the third wheel .
Hokey cokey !!!
Is there any wonder given the complexity of this thing , the way the whole process has gone so far , it's taken two years to get the cabinet in a room and not leave till an agreement of sorts was reached .
A black and white vote on a rainbow of issues backed up by a campaign of lies , distortion's and hidden truths .
Don't try and dump this on the electorate given the nature of campaigning with self interest at the heart of it .
The Tories own it , so far it's cost them a PM , a lost majority and more divided than they were two years ago with the present incumbent hanging on for dear life .
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