o/t night of the long knives

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

The country is in a mess without a doubt, after a democratic referendum the losers have made attempt after attempt to stop Brexit even though to do so would be completely self destructive

We have two major parties that both have divisions within their own ranks, we have a liberal party that’s unelectable and numerous fringe parties that get media attention far greater than their share of the electorate.

On top of that we have Germany, Italy, France and others quite rightly protecting their own interests by sitting back, laughing and saying no whenever any way forward to Brexit is proposed.

If May, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Corbyn, McDonnel, Abbot and Cable are the best we have then God preserve us.

[KerrAvon]

She's not a leader, she's a ditherer with no control over her cabinet and once again we see, ironically, another FEMALE Tory prime Minister who's about to be ousted by her cabinet.

In politics, the difference between leadership and management quickly comes to the fore. Blair was a leader ( notorious in government for his disinterest in detail) and people who had never voted Tory followed him. Brown was a manager (always on top of his brief) and couldn't carry the country.

To me, May has more of a Brown feel about her, but she has made a stand on the 'soft' line and I guess we'll see if there is a leadership challenge.

I agree that there may be an element of misogyny in the attitudes of some towards her

[millmoormagic]

The country is in a mess without a doubt, after a democratic referendum the losers have made attempt after attempt to stop Brexit even though to do so would be completely self destructive

We have two major parties that both have divisions within their own ranks, we have a liberal party that’s unelectable and numerous fringe parties that get media attention far greater than their share of the electorate.

On top of that we have Germany, Italy, France and others quite rightly protecting their own interests by sitting back, laughing and saying no whenever any way forward to Brexit is proposed.

If May, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Corbyn, McDonnel, Abbot and Cable are the best we have then God preserve us.

The only attempts at stopping brexit happening can be directly attributed to the tory party, they're the ones in gov't who are/were in charge, from the off, of the whole thing, and they have absolutely made a bollox of it...

Only an idiot could blame anyone else than the party in gov't for the debacle that is brexit, you're desperately clutching at straws

[KerrAvon]

Agree that not many of us really thought through the implications of the Brexit vote, or appreciated the real complexity, although it didn't take long to see it coming...

Of the 52% that voted leave I'm sure that many wanted a hard Brexit but I'm also sure that at least a sizeable number wanted to leave but thought there would be a deal that wouldn't cause the negative economic impact that most economists seem to be indicating.

Numbers are guesswork but if even only 20% of Leave voters definitely wanted a deal with the EU to safeguard the economy's that makes the number of people who are accepting the verdict of the referendum 52% + 20% leavers wanting a deal the clear majority of the public wanting a 'soft' Brexit. I can't believe that all 52% of leave voters wanted, and still want a 'no deal' scenario???

Broadly agree - but what's your point? The country was given a choice and voted leave.

And what of The Great Leader? Does he have a view on Brexit and could he actually bring the Labour party into line on it?

[mellowmiller]

The only attempts at stopping brexit happening can be directly attributed to the tory party, they're the ones in gov't who are/were in charge, from the off, of the whole thing, and they have absolutely made a bollox of it...

Only an idiot could blame anyone else than the party in gov't for the debacle that is brexit, you're desperately clutching at straws

There's no doubt the government has made an absolute horlicks of all things Brexit but, just out of interest, what do you think Labour would do if they found themselves in power after a general election?
I only ask because I'm finding it hard to understand what their policies are and Keir Starmer comes across as a Remainer.

[millmoormagic]

There's no doubt the government has made an absolute horlicks of all things Brexit but, just out of interest, what do you think Labour would do if they found themselves in power after a general election?
I only ask because I'm finding it hard to understand what their policies are and Keir Starmer comes across as a Remainer.

The only thing Grist got right was that there's a split in every party about Brexit, mirroring the vote across the country probably. I think you're right about Starmer, and there's a big group of labour mp's who are remainers, Corbyn however is towing the party line, traditionally he has always opposed the EU. It's an interesting thing because for Corbyn to implement his nationalising policies there has to be some movement with the EU, to be honest it suits Corbyn's ideas that we go out, because there are rules within the EU that block nationalisation, something about competition etc.
What i certainly think labour would do in power is immediately put Brexit first and foremost, because quite frankly we as a country have just blown two years of possible fruitful negotiations because of the whim of hard right hard brexiteers, we need to get this done, asap, and get on with running this country for the good of the country, and not run it for the selfish aims of a few rich tory's.

[gm_gm]

Can imagine JC at the final, booing the national anthem, put a fiver on Croatia

[mikemiller]

Breaking news.... Hunt has taken over from Boris, and Hancock has just been appointed as Minister of Health - presumably due to his background knowledge of the blood donation service

[millmoormagic]

Can imagine JC at the final, booing the national anthem, put a fiver on Croatia

Well the way it's looking May aint gunna be there regardless...

[great_fire]

All we had to do to do better in the World Cup was leave the EU, won it before we joined, doing better now we've voted to leave.