O/T European Union

[Exiletyke]

To state the bleeding obvious (for animal's benefit), it's probably about geography and history.

Speaking to the Belgian chap that I mentioned earlier in the thread, it was clear that, for him one of the major positives about the EU is the role it has played in reducing conflict on the continent, which is where I came into this thread. We obviously suffered in the two world wars, but have avoided land wars been fought across our country (Northern Ireland accepted) for centuries. Had we not done so, the attractiveness of being 'European' might be more obvious to us.

Or could it be that your Belgian friend & his countrymen receive more than they pay in & will get worse when we leave?
Bet it never crossed his mind

[animallittle3]

Unfortunately Animal temptation got the better of them and the evidence was irrefutable - which is why we stuck to our guns.
If those with a criminal disposition put as much time and energy into legitimate ways of making money as they do into criminality the world would be a much better place wouldn't it.

Their solicitor advised them against coming to court as they knew there was no chance of winning, in court they tried to find holes in the disciplinary process rather than trying to defend the actual charge.

As with bogus asylum seekers and refugees, laws there to protect the genuine cases are used by the dishonest to gain an advantage for themselves.

That's fair enough red flagged and I do sympathise to a certain extent with the case involved .

Just for a bit of balance , an employee can also take a trade union to a tribunal if he feels he's not had the best service .

There was also two avenues open before any case goes to tribunal , firstly your company's grievance procedure or failing that the ACAS early conciliation service can also greatly help .

The solicitor in question advised his client not to pursue the claim at tribunal because he would lose but did he represent him anyway to pick up the fee ?

There's much company's can do themselves and many don't make the effort at recruitment stage , get references checked out fully from previous employers , what about a CRB check for instance .

No system is ever going to be foolproof and I suspect you've had a bit of bad luck with this case .

Shouldn't have got to tribunal with what you have said .

[KerrAvon]

Are you really trying to draw a comparison between my personal allowance and a company like Amazon who paid £1.8m in tax on billions of pounds ?

Nope. I'm asking whether you would choose to pay more tax than you are required to, and if you wouldn't, why you think anyone else (a company or individual) should.

Let's break it down: Do you choose to pay more tax than you are required to?

And on a secondary note, do you sometimes choose not to pay tax that you should? You seem to know a bit about the habits of the illegal tobacco importers.

As an aside, I don't recognise the figures that you give for Amazon. Firstly, companies pay tax on profit, not turnover, which is what I assume you mean by billions. Secondly, I'm not sure where £1.8m comes from. Here's a link to a Guardian story that followed the last set of Amazon accounts:

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...es-soar-to-7bn

[KerrAvon]

Or could it be that your Belgian friend & his countrymen receive more than they pay in & will get worse when we leave?
Bet it never crossed his mind

He wasn't a friend. Just someone I got chatting with.

I'm sure that the EU is concerned about the loss of the UK for many reasons, including financial, but I doubt whether many citizens of European countries are fixated on national contributions in the way that some people in the UK are.

[animallittle3]

I can see now why you don't seem to give stuff for the consequences of the no deal Brexit for the less well off. It's the 'I'm alright Jack' approach.

I can see it now - you sitting beneath your pergola whilst sipping a cold one from your discounted fridge and browsing through Spanish property details - trying to decide which shape of pool you prefer. Then maybe tapping away on the laptop to bang on about foodbanks before having another cold one and a nap.

P.s. With the likely ending of reciprocal health care arrangements between the UK and Spain after Brexit, you will no doubt be taking out private health insurance - possibly a bit dear for you - but the transformation will then be complete.

I think we need to reestablish where we sit in the grand scheme of things , both our historical views are from opposing directions and explains why we clash so much .

The picture you are attempting to paint to the jury is one of hypocrisy and that somehow myself and you are actually aligned , we aren't .

During our exchanges over the years you've more than championed the neoliberal wet dream and as I pointed out to you on this network recently I've yet to see you stand up for normal working people although you don't seem to have a problem with hate preachers who turn muslims in to the killers of kids at pop concerts in manchester .

Left examine what your views mean in real life to the less well off in this country and let the reader determine who votes or supports to make people worse off .

You said recently that austerity is a good thing because it's showed a small surplus , what you don't of course say is who in society have paid that price and who has reaped the benefits , those who reap the benefits are the ones historically you tend to support .

This is what you vote for and support .


I'll take local government as my subject because in essence this provides the basis of services normal working people rely on every day .


Local government have suffered a reduction in revenue of 20% since 2010 .

Police spending is down by 17% and they have reduced officers by 14% , this has resulted in a rise in crime as you would expect .

Spending on prisons is down by 20% and assaults on guards has doubled .


Spending on road maintenance has shrunk by a quarter .

Support for local libraries by a third .

The National Court system have eleminated a third of it's staff .

Let's look at Merseyside which is one of the least well off city's in the UK .

Five fire stations have closed down and it's cut it's firefighters down from a 1000 to 620 .

They did an investigation into 51 people who died in accidental house fires since austerity kicked in , 19 of the victims were found to be in need of homecare which was clearly denied to them due to cuts to the budget .

Austerity has left more and more people without homecare , unattended and vulnerable , the majority of whom probably paid taxation all their working lifes .

Elderly people entitled to receive homecare and government funded fell by a quarter .

University College London recently did a study in to mortality rates , from 2001 to 2010 they saw a decline .

Since 2010 there are 45, 368 extra deaths that can't be accounted for , totally goes against the trend .

At the current rate of mortality 152,141 more deaths could be recorded before 2020 , associated to austerity was their verdict .

You are a supporter of the city of london historically on these pages .

It's without question they concorted a financial crisis through reckless gambling and by doing do multiplied their own wealth .

The London government used the budget deficit as an excuse to cut public spending for the less wealth off whilst handing tax cuts to corporations , again another one your thumbs up and high fives .

This is what you support and vote for , ill let the readers decide for themselves who votes to keep working and elderly people down .


And that's without even mentioning the NHS and Universal Credit debacles .


I'll await your usual grab bag of cliched dismissals .

[yorkshireborn]

I think we need to reestablish where we sit in the grand scheme of things , both our historical views are from opposing directions and explains why we clash so much .

The picture you are attempting to paint to the jury is one of hypocrisy and that somehow myself and you are actually aligned , we aren't .

During our exchanges over the years you've more than championed the neoliberal wet dream and as I pointed out to you on this network recently I've yet to see you stand up for normal working people although you don't seem to have a problem with hate preachers who turn muslims in to the killers of kids at pop concerts in manchester .

Left examine what your views mean in real life to the less well off in this country and let the reader determine who votes or supports to make people worse off .

You said recently that austerity is a good thing because it's showed a small surplus , what you don't of course say is who in society have paid that price and who has reaped the benefits , those who reap the benefits are the ones historically you tend to support .

This is what you vote for and support .


I'll take local government as my subject because in essence this provides the basis of services normal working people rely on every day .


Local government have suffered a reduction in revenue of 20% since 2010 .

Police spending is down by 17% and they have reduced officers by 14% , this has resulted in a rise in crime as you would expect .

Spending on prisons is down by 20% and assaults on guards has doubled .


Spending on road maintenance has shrunk by a quarter .

Support for local libraries by a third .

The National Court system have eleminated a third of it's staff .

Let's look at Merseyside which is one of the least well off city's in the UK .

Five fire stations have closed down and it's cut it's firefighters down from a 1000 to 620 .

They did an investigation into 51 people who died in accidental house fires since austerity kicked in , 19 of the victims were found to be in need of homecare which was clearly denied to them due to cuts to the budget .

Austerity has left more and more people without homecare , unattended and vulnerable , the majority of whom probably paid taxation all their working lifes .

Elderly people entitled to receive homecare and government funded fell by a quarter .

University College London recently did a study in to mortality rates , from 2001 to 2010 they saw a decline .

Since 2010 there are 45, 368 extra deaths that can't be accounted for , totally goes against the trend .

At the current rate of mortality 152,141 more deaths could be recorded before 2020 , associated to austerity was their verdict .

You are a supporter of the city of london historically on these pages .

It's without question they concorted a financial crisis through reckless gambling and by doing do multiplied their own wealth .

The London government used the budget deficit as an excuse to cut public spending for the less wealth off whilst handing tax cuts to corporations , again another one your thumbs up and high fives .

This is what you support and vote for , ill let the readers decide for themselves who votes to keep working and elderly people down .


And that's without even mentioning the NHS and Universal Credit debacles .


I'll await your usual grab bag of cliched dismissals .

what the hell has that lot got to do with brexit.

[animallittle3]

what the hell has that lot got to do with brexit.

Well there's decent evidence to suggest that the leave vote was influenced by the austerity programme rolled out in 2010 by the coalition and then the tory government .

If you examine where the leave vote was strong such as it was here then it's not hard to see there's a link .

I'm not suggesting right or wrong here but the breakdown of the leave vote seems to suggest there's merit in that assumption .

[yorkshireborn]

Well there's decent evidence to suggest that the leave vote was influenced by the austerity programme rolled out in 2010 by the coalition and then the tory government .

If you examine where the leave vote was strong such as it was here then it's not hard to see there's a link .

I'm not suggesting right or wrong here but the breakdown of the leave vote seems to suggest there's merit in that assumption .

you need to get out and about more you only have to walk thru tarn to get a taste of eastern european and west african culture.nip into any next amazon tesco asos warehouse and speak english you wont get much in way of a reply.

yes some will have voted thinking it will help austerity some will have voted thinking the nhs was going to get 350 mill but you cant blame the leave vote on it everone that i knew who voted to leave voted to get our fishing grounds back our jobs back our laws back our culture back to stop the influx of unmetered unchecked entry into the UK from the EU.

[Gwynn Thomas vs stum]

I think the leave vote was influenced more by labours open door policy that flooded building sites up and down the country among other industries. The fact is, both parties are that inept and out of tune with the working citizen that a bunch of crazed cranks from UKIP dropped unchallenged bombs and tapped into the country’s frustrations.
UKIP are now defunct and labour are still too ****e to be classed as relevant.
Strike a light.

[animallittle3]

you need to get out and about more you only have to walk thru tarn to get a taste of eastern european and west african culture.nip into any next amazon tesco asos warehouse and speak english you wont get much in way of a reply.

yes some will have voted thinking it will help austerity some will have voted thinking the nhs was going to get 350 mill but you cant blame the leave vote on it everone that i knew who voted to leave voted to get our fishing grounds back our jobs back our laws back our culture back to stop the influx of unmetered unchecked entry into the UK from the EU.

I'm not blaming anyone for voting leave , I voted leave myself .

Everyone has their own personal reason why they voted leave same as those who voted remain .

Dennis Skinner and Jacob Rees Mogg voted leave and they are about as far apart politically as you can get but both are leave voters .

It was a reaction to austerity rather than any hope of it ending in anycase with regards to towns like ours in my opinion .

Stuck two fingers up to it and said fuq you Cameron which is fair enough .