Armstrong .......

[champs95]

As I mentioned on Friday, Armstrong has now signed. Top signing. We paid well under £2m and have him on a 4 year deal. I feel Blackburn is the place he will develop into a proper footballer. Under a great manager who can get the best out of him. We now crucially have pace up-front.

As Mowbray has said all along, we DO have money (plenty of money I may add) and we WILL spend it. If people had just listened to him (the clown who can no longer show his face on here is living proof) and shown the faith we had to shown last season, he was always going to keep to his word. I simply don't understand why people are still questioning him. In July aswell?? What kind of an idiot would do that ?? Well, hopefully he will now not post anymore rubbish here.

Now onto this lad from Hibs. Whitingham and Gladwin are about to leave the club. He didn't even put Whitty on the bench on sat. We need an upgrade to our centre mid. I like Travis, I believe most do. But TM didn't bring him on Sat. I am critical of this as I don't think we would have lost had he featured. Bringing Conway on, shows me this squad still needs upgrading. It needs more quality. McGinn is one. Celtic wont pay over £2m so if we go a bit higher, he will come here. Mowbray has links at Hibs.
Raya was at fault on Sat for that weak, weak equaliser. We still desperately need a goalkeeper. He may even replace Raya who is a great shot stopper, but is way too weak on crosses. He isn't improving either. He is adequate, but not irreplaceable. That's why TM is still massively in the hunt for a keeper. I don't even think he will be no2, he will be there to play. You may say I'm being harsh Auks. Sorry, but we simply aren't here to finish 4th bottom. I firmly believe our aim is play-offs, just we aren't the type of club, or have a brash manager that would say that in public. Behind closed doors, we really fancy ourselves. If we start staying too loyal to Raya, Smallwood etc we wont move forwards. If they raise their game and improve good, if not we need competition for places. Raya isn't being pushed by that Canadian lad. Simple as that. Whitingham is on good money, as is Gladwin. Sat showed we have an okay starting 11 (I still think 3 of them will be replaced long term) but nothing to come on.
We always knew we had a squad good enough to finish mid-table. That's before we signed anyone.
Davenport, Rothwell etc are squad players. Fillers. Some weeks they will play, others they wont.
This weeks signings will be playing.

We will spend money on a midfielder, fingers crossed its McGinn.
A new keeper, even more relevant after Sat.
A new striker (maybe two) I think one we will spend money on, the other will be a loan.
And Chapman. We desperately need pace and flair out wide.
And a centre half, we really do need another.

This will be an exciting week ahead.

[AmericanRover]

Champs....thorough comment. Well thought out...as always. And of course I agree with just about all of it. Glad Blackburn are back in the Championship.

And I'm back as well after several years of life related stuff. All the best to you and all the other Rover Footymad folks! AR

[AucklandRover]

Time getting tight now, Champs. Do you think all of that will be done by Thursday, or will we have to wait until January in some cases?

[AucklandRover]

Champs, I have been thinking about your post, and I do worry you are, perhaps, jumping the gun, not to mention being a bit harsh.
I've looked at the equaliser several times, and I just can't see how it's a goalkeeping error. The ball passes several Rovers players (Mulgrew looks close enough to it to have been able to clear) and it's almost impossible for Raya to guess that it will get that far. It's a bit similar to the Wigan equaliser last season.
Will we REALLY be able to get a keeper who is BETTER than Raya at this stage? Will McGinn choose us if a PL club matches our offer? Is Bauer significantly better than Downing?
I am interested in your idea that TM is genuinely eyeing the play-offs but if Venky's are on board with that, hasn't it all been left a bit late?
As far as the squad is concerned, I still don't see that we need 30+ players, and things are going to have to happen very quickly. I accept that nothing should surprise us on deadline day, but I'm going to retain my natural caution for now.
I am expecting an up-and-down season with a lot of teams of roughly similar standard. Things look very bad for Rotherham on the surface, but even their season isn't written in stone.
I think we will beat Millwall, but I am very reluctant to predict a successful season because my fingers have been burned too many times.

[champs95]

Champs, I have been thinking about your post, and I do worry you are, perhaps, jumping the gun, not to mention being a bit harsh.
I've looked at the equaliser several times, and I just can't see how it's a goalkeeping error. The ball passes several Rovers players (Mulgrew looks close enough to it to have been able to clear) and it's almost impossible for Raya to guess that it will get that far. It's a bit similar to the Wigan equaliser last season.
Will we REALLY be able to get a keeper who is BETTER than Raya at this stage? Will McGinn choose us if a PL club matches our offer? Is Bauer significantly better than Downing?
I am interested in your idea that TM is genuinely eyeing the play-offs but if Venky's are on board with that, hasn't it all been left a bit late?
As far as the squad is concerned, I still don't see that we need 30+ players, and things are going to have to happen very quickly. I accept that nothing should surprise us on deadline day, but I'm going to retain my natural caution for now.
I am expecting an up-and-down season with a lot of teams of roughly similar standard. Things look very bad for Rotherham on the surface, but even their season isn't written in stone.
I think we will beat Millwall, but I am very reluctant to predict a successful season because my fingers have been burned too many times.

I think Raya is weak on crosses. I thought that last season. He gets muscled out far too easily. He doesn't command a box and it causes us to lose goals we really should defend better. A ball cant travel 56/60 yards into the goal from a cross without it being dealt with. I said, I do think I am being harsh. Football by definition is harsh. We got relegated with 54 points Auks. It is a cruel beast is football. We had to endure a season in Div1, and believe me we do not want to return anytime soon. What is good for one league, isn't for another. I'm not saying Raya will outright be dropped. But is he at risk of losing his position?? Absolutely not!!! And we need create a healthy squad where EVERY POSITION is fought. Leutwiler will never ever push for a place. So we need a keeper right now that CAN push Raya, and improve him. Or we simply sit and tread water. That's not the way we are heading. We mean business now. Downing was signed very much for Div1.

Downing is ok for the odd game. Last season when he played for a sustained period, we dropped points. He can adequately step in for a game or two. Not 6 or 7 in a row. Back to TM again. He finds the right people. Downing isn't going to kick up a stink if he doesn't play. He was signed because Lenihan was injured until March. Lenny was always going to return. Downing knew that, once he did, he had to sit on the bench. When called upon, he steps back in. That takes a certain type of player to accept that. And great management. And finding the right sort of character to go along with it, for the good of the squad, over any personal gain.
Yes ......every single day of the week do I think Bauer will be a distinct class above Downing. Because I 100% trust Tony Mowbray. Not only buying the right player for the team, who will improve us, but the right sort of lad who will develop. If you are serious, and we are, then you need 2 top players for each position. Not one, and a guy who basically isn't good enough. That will mean we simply tread water. I think Downing will stay around. He will never let us down badly. But will never play 15 games in a row producing great form, marking out of the game all the best strikers in the Champ. He could not do that in Div1, so I would never expected him to do it in the Champ. I do believe we are after a real gem in Bauer. Who we can get for a steal.

Auks, I did say the other day, if 4/5 come in, 4/5 will go out. Clubs are in for Nuttall, Whitingham, Gladwin, Hart etc. In no way we will be have a 30+ squad. We are just raising the quality of the players in the first team squad, because we are playing at a higher standard.

It may appear we are taking our time. I know the in's and out's of the Armstrong deal. He was desperate to come here. Newcastle where happy to sell. We have been in negotiations since he returned back to Toon at the end of the season. It was a relatively simple deal to get over the line. Yet took over 2 months to complete. Football deals are generally very complicated. Its taken ALL clubs time. The WC has had a major effect. We are no different.

TM said the other day, we have down several 7 figure offers. And are very much still trying to get a few loan deals through. TM went out to india and told Venkys what he needed. They said they would back him. And they have.
It looks on the outside things have been left to the last minute. I don't think that's been from a want of trying our end. More deals this summer have taken a lot longer. TM knew exactly what he wanted. And how much of a budget we need to secure those players. Nothing has changed.

[champs95]

Champs....thorough comment. Well thought out...as always. And of course I agree with just about all of it. Glad Blackburn are back in the Championship.

And I'm back as well after several years of life related stuff. All the best to you and all the other Rover Footymad folks! AR

Hello AR, very good to hear from you. I do hope everything is all ok? How is the family?

[champs95]

Time getting tight now, Champs. Do you think all of that will be done by Thursday, or will we have to wait until January in some cases?

I think we have several long term targets, and will try to secure them now, just before the window shuts. Bauer, I get the feeling we will go in again, if it cant be done, then we will return in Jan.

Re what you said about Mcginn. Hibs are a decent side, and yes it was a friendly, but we beat them very easily. The standard up there isn't anywhere near the Prem. This lad would simply not be able to make the step up from the Scottish Prem to the EPL. Hardly anyone does that, the jump is massive. The natural step is to come and play in our Champ, and develop there. I am not too fussed about Brighton being in for him, over us. He will play and develop here far more than sitting on their bench. Here he would play. The fact Villa are in for him is more of a concern. As they could outbid us aswell.
Our advantage is Mowbray and his connection to Hibs.

[AucklandRover]

Champs - on another thread, you called TM "brilliant". I just think that's a step too far. When he arrived, I was sceptical (because of his previous record), but I am always in the "Let's give him a chance" block. He has proved to be much more imaginative and flexible than I expected. He is a superb motivator and man-manager, and his purchases have been very astute. "Brilliant", though? Would fans of other clubs he has managed agree? To me. every manager is only as good as the last job he did. It is a trade where hero to zero applies in Spades!
How to judge Mourinho, for example? Almost all of them have failed somewhere!
In addition, as you all know (a groan here from Despair!), I am a complete sceptic in terms of this widespread belief that "It's all down to the manager." TM was not responsible for Palmer's woeful miss or for the freak equaliser. If we have 70% possession, and the opposition score the only goal from a deflection, it is not the manager's fault. If the referee misses two blatant penalties, it is not the manager's fault.
When we win, that is not entirely down to the manager; the same when we lose.
Obviously, the manager sets the tone, picks the team, decides the pattern, and - in the long run - carries the can, but the reason I got irritated, for example, when posters on the Telegraph site found ways of blaming Mowbray for Ipswich getting the draw is that their criticisms suggest that the manager is there with his remote-control device, operating the players on the pitch. Anyone who has played football or managed a team knows that sometimes things go well; sometimes they don't - and that this (in the short term) rarely has much to do with what the manager has said or done! With some of the teams I've looked after, I have spent whole matches wondering why on earth all my players were ignoring the game-plan!
To get back to transfers, I totally take your point about TM's ambitions for the season, but I don't agree with some of your individual conclusions. Downing has a remarkable record of success when he has played. In comparison, Bauer is a guess.
As for the keeper, I think back to my playing days and try to remember if the effort I put in was greater if I knew there was a rival for my position. The answer? No. Once a game started, I gave 100% and forgot about everything else.
On the subject of McGinn, I think you are being a bit naive. If he is like the vast majority of other players (and, here, Despair will agree with me), Mowbray's links with Hibernian will count for nothing if another club offers him more money!
I have supported TM from the start, and will continue to do so, but I think you are in danger of getting carried away. I don't think we will take the Championship by storm, although I will be delighted to be proved wrong.
This business of Wil Trapp mystifies me. You say somewhere that Davenport was bought for the future, rather than as a genuine challenger for a first-team place, but what would be the point of that? We have a host of "promising youngsters" already. I assumed he was signed because he was regarded as significantly better than Travis. If Trapp arrived as well, where would he be in the pecking-order?
McGinn is a slightly different case, because the evidence is that he is genuinely a class above most of our current players.
Then there is Rothwell. I thought he was bought to play as well.
You seem to support every possible purchase, but that has to be balanced with the question of how much a settled team needs to be disrupted.
That line of argument assumes that the following team (or similar) would be dramatically better than the one which started on Saturday:
A.N Other
Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Bell
Tripp McGinn
Dack Palmer
Graham Armstrong.

I am not suggesting this is exactly the team you or TM would pick, but you see my point about disruption. Babies and bath-water come to mind.

[champs95]

Champs - on another thread, you called TM "brilliant". I just think that's a step too far. When he arrived, I was sceptical (because of his previous record), but I am always in the "Let's give him a chance" block. He has proved to be much more imaginative and flexible than I expected. He is a superb motivator and man-manager, and his purchases have been very astute. "Brilliant", though? Would fans of other clubs he has managed agree? To me. every manager is only as good as the last job he did. It is a trade where hero to zero applies in Spades!
How to judge Mourinho, for example? Almost all of them have failed somewhere!
In addition, as you all know (a groan here from Despair!), I am a complete sceptic in terms of this widespread belief that "It's all down to the manager." TM was not responsible for Palmer's woeful miss or for the freak equaliser. If we have 70% possession, and the opposition score the only goal from a deflection, it is not the manager's fault. If the referee misses two blatant penalties, it is not the manager's fault.
When we win, that is not entirely down to the manager; the same when we lose.
Obviously, the manager sets the tone, picks the team, decides the pattern, and - in the long run - carries the can, but the reason I got irritated, for example, when posters on the Telegraph site found ways of blaming Mowbray for Ipswich getting the draw is that their criticisms suggest that the manager is there with his remote-control device, operating the players on the pitch. Anyone who has played football or managed a team knows that sometimes things go well; sometimes they don't - and that this (in the short term) rarely has much to do with what the manager has said or done! With some of the teams I've looked after, I have spent whole matches wondering why on earth all my players were ignoring the game-plan!
To get back to transfers, I totally take your point about TM's ambitions for the season, but I don't agree with some of your individual conclusions. Downing has a remarkable record of success when he has played. In comparison, Bauer is a guess.
As for the keeper, I think back to my playing days and try to remember if the effort I put in was greater if I knew there was a rival for my position. The answer? No. Once a game started, I gave 100% and forgot about everything else.
On the subject of McGinn, I think you are being a bit naive. If he is like the vast majority of other players (and, here, Despair will agree with me), Mowbray's links with Hibernian will count for nothing if another club offers him more money!
I have supported TM from the start, and will continue to do so, but I think you are in danger of getting carried away. I don't think we will take the Championship by storm, although I will be delighted to be proved wrong.
This business of Wil Trapp mystifies me. You say somewhere that Davenport was bought for the future, rather than as a genuine challenger for a first-team place, but what would be the point of that? We have a host of "promising youngsters" already. I assumed he was signed because he was regarded as significantly better than Travis. If Trapp arrived as well, where would he be in the pecking-order?
McGinn is a slightly different case, because the evidence is that he is genuinely a class above most of our current players.
Then there is Rothwell. I thought he was bought to play as well.
You seem to support every possible purchase, but that has to be balanced with the question of how much a settled team needs to be disrupted.
That line of argument assumes that the following team (or similar) would be dramatically better than the one which started on Saturday:
A.N Other
Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Bell
Tripp McGinn
Dack Palmer
Graham Armstrong.

I am not suggesting this is exactly the team you or TM would pick, but you see my point about disruption. Babies and bath-water come to mind.

Last season he rarely played the same side. He picks a team based on who we are playing. And he feels he needs options. Generally speaking his signings have been ok. Some do well, others don't . That's the very nature of football.

As for TM. The job he has done for Rovers has been brilliant. Not half decent, not ok, ....brilliant. You aren't factoring in what a mess the club was when he arrived. When was the last time we bought an u21 international for such a good price? Or had a great young side built from a low financial standing? One that is back stronger than the one he found? He didn't have the greatest record before Rovers. Hence the scepticism. But the job he's done has been brilliant. Not half decent, not ok .....brilliant. He has been running a football club and sorting us out from the inside. While bringing back the god times on it.
12 months ago people moaned and questioned why we spent £750k on Dack.
Every week his tactics got questioned. People doubted him. Too defensive. Too cautious. We won't go up. Shrewsbury won't go away. Wigan are too far in front. We should be playing the young lads. Why is he signing Downing?
I've heard it all before with Mowbray. He has done a brilliant job. From the bad place he found us,to now, it has been fantastic. From day one until now.
Of course if a club with more money comes in a player will go there instead. But that's not exclusively the case.
Armstrong chose Rovers because of Mowbray. And because of what he is building here. Plus the fact we have great facilities and a great young side. Who are clearly going places. Armstrong had other offers, but chose here. He even had a club that was willing to pay him more money. I know that for a fact.
In professional football you have to have to be pushed. If you aren't, then you lose a competitive edge. The goalie we have is on easy street. He doesn't risk losing his place. Therefore his standards don't need raising.
I do agree Downing had a great record in Div 1. If he played for a sustained period in the Champ of be concerned. Davenport is a very young,raw kid we saw playing at Burton who we could get for £200k. So we got him in as it's a no risk signing. Due to his age, it's fair to assume he was signed with the future in mind.

[Despair]

Two references towards my good self (pokes I think they're called these days), in order to draw me into the 'debate'?

My view can only be a overall one ie without judging every single character listed as I have honestly no knowledge of them - newcomers that is.
It's all down to TM ie everything? No, what is down to TM is the 'healing' of the club in terms of re-found optomism and with that a feel good about the place. More than anything pfrom being a 'bridge' tween owner and supporter.
His dealings ( as much as he 'actually does the real dealing' in these modern times?), are refreshing as there is far more deliberation over them. Yes of course he's (or the man who actually discusses it) not going going to say 'we really, really want your man so how much are you wanting and we'll match it!'.
He's developed a good tight knit squad of players, but we all know moving up a div does not mean that would cement a good season ahead, so he has to embelish it. He appears to be trying to without disrupting it, but as in all things one never knows for sure if it will turn out fine. That's life really.
Although his decisions made do have a significant impact upon proceedings IMO, it's not the be all and end all. I have to say given Palmers lack of serious game time, I was v v surprised that he was put on. That said his 'miss' was down to him, not TM. BTW although his effort was tame, it was equally fortunate (for them) that it hit a static defender 'in the way' IMO.
As was their equaliser ie it was fairly flukey. Goalkeeping 'error', not entirely.
Brilliant? In terms of Einstein brilliant, no of course not. Not too sure that is what's Champs is claiming, but then again maybe he is��
Brilliant, as in he's been brilliant for us ie well suited for our situation, yes totally agree. Esp with the preceding several years and the 'fallout' ensuing from it. You could liken him in this way to Dyke at BFC ie he's been brilliant for them.
At the next club (for both) just as 'brilliant' ? Maybe so, maybe not!
Aaah yes, the 'why do any of them play pro football' issue . The enjoyment, or the pay cheque?
Because of my overall 'opinion' that is v cynical, maybe far more than is true (but I would take some convincing). Note: this involves the upper echelons' of the game. The deliberations and discussions that go on for me is to try and determine just what 'character' are we buying into above and beyond their on field capabilities, and that can only be a good thing, and in any case the only way to be able to do it. As just to wave cheques' about any one of us could do v v easily ie money talks (you don't need to!).
As for does a players decide to join us or not would be be down to many factors not just TM and or monies.

I note there is now a focus arising upon my own concern and that is the home support, ie the swelling of the attendances are going to become crucial for us to *****

[QUOTE=AucklandRover;38972750]Champs - on another thread, you called TM "brilliant". I just think that's a step too far. When he arrived, I was sceptical (because of his previous record), but I am always in the "Let's give him a chance" block. He has proved to be much more imaginative and flexible than I expected. He is a superb motivator and man-manager, and his purchases have been very astute. "Brilliant", though? Would fans of other clubs he has managed agree? To me. every manager is only as good as the last job he did. It is a trade where hero to zero applies in Spades!
How to judge Mourinho, for example? Almost all of them have failed somewhere!
In addition, as you all know (a groan here from Despair!), I am a complete sceptic in terms of this widespread belief that "It's all down to the manager." TM was not responsible for Palmer's woeful miss or for the freak equaliser. If we have 70% possession, and the opposition score the only goal from a deflection, it is not the manager's fault. If the referee misses two blatant penalties, it is not the manager's fault.
When we win, that is not entirely down to the manager; the same when we lose.
Obviously, the manager sets the tone, picks the team, decides the pattern, and - in the long run - carries the can, but the reason I got irritated, for example, when posters on the Telegraph site found ways of blaming Mowbray for Ipswich getting the draw is that their criticisms suggest that the manager is there with his remote-control device, operating the players on the pitch. Anyone who has played football or managed a team knows that sometimes things go well; sometimes they don't - and that this (in the short term) rarely has much to do with what the manager has said or done! With some of the teams I've looked after, I have spent whole matches wondering why on earth all my players were ignoring the game-plan!
To get back to transfers, I totally take your point about TM's ambitions for the season, but I don't agree with some of your individual conclusions. Downing has a remarkable record of success when he has played. In comparison, Bauer is a guess.
As for the keeper, I think back to my playing days and try to remember if the effort I put in was greater if I knew there was a rival for my position. The answer? No. Once a game started, I gave 100% and forgot about everything else.
On the subject of McGinn, I think you are being a bit naive. If he is like the vast majority of other players (and, here, Despair will agree with me), Mowbray's links with Hibernian will count for nothing if another club offers him more money!
I have supported TM from the start, and will continue to do so, but I think you are in danger of getting carried away. I don't think we will take the Championship by storm, although I will be delighted to be proved wrong.
This business of Wil Trapp mystifies me. You say somewhere that Davenport was bought for the future, rather than as a genuine challenger for a first-team place, but what would be the point of that? We have a host of "promising youngsters" already. I assumed he was signed because he was regarded as significantly better than Travis. If Trapp arrived as well, where would he be in the pecking-order?
McGinn is a slightly different case, because the evidence is that he is genuinely a class above most of our current players.
Then there is Rothwell. I thought he was bought to play as well.
You seem to support every possible purchase, but that has to be balanced with the question of how much a settled team needs to be disrupted.
That line of argument assumes that the following team (or similar) would be dramatically better than the one which started on Saturday:
A.N Other
Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Bell
Tripp McGinn
Dack Palmer
Graham Armstrong.

I am not suggesting this is exactly the team you or TM would pick, but you see my point about disruption. Babies and bath-water come to mind.[/QUOTE

*****
The concern for me is the wished for swelling of the home attendances. But I do not see that happening to the extent that is being hoped for, and there is still the negative element that abounds there. It will only take two or three defeats for the crowd to become impatient and restless again.
This club is not sufficiently healed, as yet.
Does that answer your 'pokes' Aucks? That sort of rhymes.

SORRY ABOUT THAT CHAPS DONT KNOW WOT THE HELL CAUSED THAT !