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Thread: Bold, Bloody and Resolute (Early Impressions of Moore)

  1. #1
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    Bold, Bloody and Resolute (Early Impressions of Moore)

    For Albion fans, one point of contention was whether Big Dave’s successful run in the final 6 games of the season was positive in that it alleviated the stench of Pulis/Pardew, or whether it was negative in that it forced us to view Moore on emotional rather than objective terms. Indeed, when Moore candidly discussed his desire to “change the culture” of the club the majority of fans took it at face-value; a cynic may claim that Moore is lowering expectations.

    In spite of all of these things, my desire for Moore to succeed is absolutely massive, not just because he’s the current Albion manager, but because he’s Big Dave. Because his rhetoric seems like an alpine-sized gust of fresh air. Because he played for us. Because his leadership is value-based rather than the conventional autocratic leadership style that you get in football.

    August is often a time for dreaming. The departure of toxic characters; the return of the green and yellow away kit; Big Dave; local talent in Field, Harper and Edwards. In that final ***** hour before the season kicks off, one can get carried away. Particularly, when we are compelled to view the manager and the club on such emotive terms. Particularly, when Big Dave looks so resplendent in his all-black attire. Particularly when we hear stories of how he once intimidated Roy Keane at Derby contrasting with his good-Christian persona. Particularly, when football’s inherent need for a black manager to succeed is overwhelming. And once more, I ask - are we projecting our own fantasies and anxieties onto him?

    Optimists often refer to how Moore was integral to Albion, Derby and Bradford’s promotions as a player. Whilst the experience of promotion as a player may be useful as context, as a reference point - ultimately, transferrable skills are a myth. Being proficient at analysing the Crimean War at school, does not mean you will necessarily be successful at analysing a spreadsheet. What matters is having the domain-specific knowledge of the role; of tactics; of the players.

    Tony Pulis is widely heralded as the Boogie Man at West Brom. His methods are demonstrably effective for a given amount of time before the players and fans give into a state of ennui. Pulis is in his 26th year of management, he has domain-specific knowledge of the role, he has learnt from mistakes. As a man of limited resources myself, I often get a pay-optional haircut at the School of Barbers from someone who seems modern but inexperienced, when I contrast the level of service I get from the old man I used to frequent in Kidderminster the difference is staggering. The old geezer might seem out of touch but in his career, he has seen all manner of barnets (just as Pulis has struggled with his Berahino’s, his Beattie’s) and he isn’t fazed. My point is that Moore is just starting out. It is wildly unfair to expect him to succeed. It is wildly unfair to project all of these values onto him.

    Moore only joined the coaching staff at WBA, just over a year ago. He has watched Pulis and Pardew from afar, then he is cast into a strange set of footballing circumstances and succeeds, and is now rewarded by having a job in a different league, in different circumstances - and by the end of the window - broadly different players. His appointment, is a footballing version on the Peter Principle, the notion that workers within a hierarchy will rise on the strength of their skills, right up to the exact point those skills are no longer any use to them.

    And to return to his influences: presumably, Moore was more enamoured by the modus operandi of Pulis given his decision to play 4-4-1-1 in all of his 8 games, thus far. In many respects, Pulis is the Maggie Thatcher of football management: an evil witch but ultimately effective. When Theresa May was appointed, the public anticipated much of the same - but in truth, she is merely extremely evil. And this can be seen as analogous to Moore’s tactics - he has only ever been involved in a coaching set-up with Pulis or Pardew, and has accordingly, tried to parrot the vertical, agricultural football of Pulis with limited success. Indeed, our results against Man United, Liverpool, Newcastle and Spurs were not enterprising but plucky - but because it was Moore, we viewed it on emotional terms rather than objective.

    Now that we have had a rude awakening against Bolton and Forest: Moore will have to either adapt or die. The very fact that he insisted that newly-appointed assistant manager (and de facto attacking coach) have a holiday after his long World Cup campaign with Belgium reinforces that Big Dave is a smashing chap, but a more ruthless man may have compromised. There is a hope that the longer Jones is around the squad, the better they will be going forward.

    Like an alcoholic, maybe we need to hit rock-bottom before we can reform. But in truth, we need to be proactive rather than reactive. We can act before we hit rock-bottom. Albion need to be bold, bloody and resolute.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Top post 92. One can only hope that Jones's appointment was Moore's appreciation that he needs tactical and analytical; help. There's clearly no doubting BD's desire and motivational skills but it is impossible to believe anyone thinks that will succeed in the modern game when even semi-successful managers have the capacity to change things relatively quickly. What has ben worrying so far is that there seems to be no particular plan as to how to play even within the 4-4-1-1 set-up that as you say he has aped from Pulis, and late reactions to sh*t situations in both games so far, albeit less so last night when at least Gayle came on with some time to get going.

    There is no doubt that we need someone in midfield that can create and look to pass forward. Woods at Brentford was mentioned sometime back and IMO would be perfect. Perhaps his size counted against him but I've rarely sen him knocked off the ball and he's often too nippy and quick to get caught with the ball at his feet. Anyway, time will tell, but given the window closes tomorrow and the games come which and fast in this division we won't have much of it before we either sink or swim.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    1,197
    Excellent post WBAFC92.
    Far too rational and reasoned for many on this board.
    This board is basically for grumpy old men, who have bipolar traits.
    Good work and I really enjoyed your analysis , made lots of sense.

  4. #4
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    Jul 2011
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    Dear liquidator, you are perspicacious beyond measure. Perhaps there is an alternative albion universe where people don't keep banging on about gays "ramming it down your throat".

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roymit View Post
    Dear liquidator, you are perspicacious beyond measure. Perhaps there is an alternative albion universe where people don't keep banging on about gays "ramming it down your throat".

    As I learnt with Tony Pulis, everyone has a view and is entitled to that view. My view of Tony Pulis, may be different from the next person, but I am sure he will be good at his present club. Even Rondon brings about different views - I am of the opinion he could not hit a barn door but of course he was a nice chap and held up the ball well! Others may think differently.

    Boards are for all sorts of topics ranging from footie that we all love ( well on the odd occasion if a West Brom fan ) or about music, politics, the economy and how Joe Smith plants his bulbs!

    The many posts on Brighton Pride were good - not racist/homo, and the majority were of the view that gays should not ram their ***ual orientation down ones throat! As Mick pointed out - can you imagine if there were to be a London March for Straight People - what's the difference!

    The country is a mess because of liberals and do gooders. The latest is that Boris should apologize as he viewed a female in a burka to be like a bank robber! FFS - if somebody called Ed Sheeran a scruffy git - is that an attack on all gingers?

    I am of the view there should be no apology for the burka comment as he's entitled to his view! Having spent a huge amount of time in the Middle East, many who wear burkas are lovely people. That said - should burkas be allowed? I would have no issue whatsoever if a person in Muslim dress taught my own child as long as their English was as good as the next English person and they were burka free. Wearing a burka in a school ( one of many places as an example ) should not be permitted as a child usually looks to lip read/engage with expression from a persons face for friendship, care and understanding. Many Muslims would agree with me on this point, although some do gooders who are white British may not! Here lies the problem. Going through airport security, my 7 year old was hand searched and this caused no problem - it did though when a " somebody" went through security with a burka and was not checked! Why? Did security feel they could get a complaint or was the individual a do gooder!

    Are other European Countries wrong? Are we a magnet for immigration because of our do gooders, and their constant banging on about a re-vote on Brexit!

    Happy for all as long as they pay taxes, can support themselves, speak English, and respect our culture and religion, as we should if outside of the UK.

    So lets hope the alternative albion universe brings about more creativity, more hard work, players who want to graft for the shirt - in a league which is inferior to the one we were in!

    If everyone discussed everything West Brom, it would be very depressing especially at the moment!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    10,879
    Quote Originally Posted by WBAFC92 View Post
    Tony Pulis is widely heralded as the Boogie Man at West Brom.
    That's a new one on me.

    Was his favourite dance the slow, slow, quick, quick, slow by any chance?

    If you're concerned with Darren Moore's inexperience then maybe these two could be of help .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCDkaDaMjI

  7. #7
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    Jul 2011
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    10,879
    Quote Originally Posted by baggieal View Post
    As I learnt with Tony Pulis, everyone has a view and is entitled to that view. My view of Tony Pulis, may be different from the next person, but I am sure he will be good at his present club. Even Rondon brings about different views - I am of the opinion he could not hit a barn door but of course he was a nice chap and held up the ball well! Others may think differently.

    Boards are for all sorts of topics ranging from footie that we all love ( well on the odd occasion if a West Brom fan ) or about music, politics, the economy and how Joe Smith plants his bulbs!

    The many posts on Brighton Pride were good - not racist/homo, and the majority were of the view that gays should not ram their ***ual orientation down ones throat! As Mick pointed out - can you imagine if there were to be a London March for Straight People - what's the difference!

    The country is a mess because of liberals and do gooders. The latest is that Boris should apologize as he viewed a female in a burka to be like a bank robber! FFS - if somebody called Ed Sheeran a scruffy git - is that an attack on all gingers?

    I am of the view there should be no apology for the burka comment as he's entitled to his view! Having spent a huge amount of time in the Middle East, many who wear burkas are lovely people. That said - should burkas be allowed? I would have no issue whatsoever if a person in Muslim dress taught my own child as long as their English was as good as the next English person and they were burka free. Wearing a burka in a school ( one of many places as an example ) should not be permitted as a child usually looks to lip read/engage with expression from a persons face for friendship, care and understanding. Many Muslims would agree with me on this point, although some do gooders who are white British may not! Here lies the problem. Going through airport security, my 7 year old was hand searched and this caused no problem - it did though when a " somebody" went through security with a burka and was not checked! Why? Did security feel they could get a complaint or was the individual a do gooder!

    Are other European Countries wrong? Are we a magnet for immigration because of our do gooders, and their constant banging on about a re-vote on Brexit!

    Happy for all as long as they pay taxes, can support themselves, speak English, and respect our culture and religion, as we should if outside of the UK.

    So lets hope the alternative albion universe brings about more creativity, more hard work, players who want to graft for the shirt - in a league which is inferior to the one we were in!

    If everyone discussed everything West Brom, it would be very depressing especially at the moment!
    What the fk was that all about Al' ?

  8. #8
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    Jun 2010
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    12,088
    Quote Originally Posted by Albionic68 View Post
    What the fk was that all about Al' ?


    Felt like Cantona! Still feckin depressed from last night! Faith will be restored when Jenkins spends that Strong Budget he promised before Thursday!

    You never know Jenkins might go to a high street bank dressed in a burka to deliver this promise - get the drift

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by baggieal View Post
    Felt like Cantona! Still feckin depressed from last night! Faith will be restored when Jenkins spends that Strong Budget he promised before Thursday!

    You never know Jenkins might go to a high street bank dressed in a burka to deliver this promise - get the drift
    Can't see him paying for a burka Al', although he might see if he could get one on 'loan' .

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    10,121
    Great post 92. Its hard to know what this club needs to be honest. I do appreciate your recognising Pulis's attributes. I think initially he was exactly what we needed and there isnt anyone better in my opinion at galvanising a poor squad to over perform. There is a mentality at this club that almost makes players look semicomatosed on the pitch at times. I really don't know the answer but I am resolutely grounded and know that good times never last and that there is no magic formula for any club. Liverpools dominance of the 70's....Man u's in the eighties and ninetees, all comes to an end. Man city's will too. All we want is a team that can compete for 90 minutes and make us proud. Will Darren and co be that set up? NO IDEA. Just hope. Will Pulis get Middlesborough promoted? Every chance and more. Does that make his football great to watch? Yes at times No for the most part. Will he get the sack eventually. Of course. They all do.

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