Loans.

[AucklandRover]

Who is better than Dack in the Champ? Not saying there aren't better players, but who? Looking around I am struggling to see anyone as good.
How did we get him for £750k from a Div1 side?
How did no other manager in football apart from Tony Mowbray see the talent? Not one scout, not one other club.

How did a classy player like Rothwell end up at Rovers on a free? No other club saw that talent? Not one. And we paid nothing.

If you know the answers to these questions, then you are effectively answering your own.

If we got Brereton, he would be a better bet than Hart, Gladwin etc.

How did we end up Armstrong on loan last season? In Div1? He got us up. And using the loan market like that has been a success.

I just don't think there is a clear way of saying yes or no. But you do need to strengthen. And in football, the saying has always been the best time to strengthen is when you are at your strongest.


Its up to us to go and find all these players on a budget. And we have been working very hard for months on a lot of these deals.

Back to Rothwell, not one fan would have said 'go get him' and yet not one fan hasn't been impressed.
Why are we still questioning everything? When its clearly working ......

I'm questioning partly because you're NOT, Champs. I think it's dangerous to say TM is guaranteed to get everything right, so don't question any of his decisions.
He has not done brilliantly in any of his previous appointments. He has been superb for us so far, but - as you know - I don't buy into the "myth of the manager". Football history teaches us that the manager-hero in Year X is sometimes the reviled "no-hoper" in Year Y.

[AucklandRover]

The thing is aucks the above players would feature.
Tyrone mings if kept fit alongside lenihan would be one hell of a partnership
This season he would be cover but looking forward this is mulgrews last season realistically.
Jordan Graham would be a useful option when an opponent is on it last legs or on the ropes
Chapman isn't coming due to another injury so we look elsewhere,We miss that raw pace in the last 20-30 minutes he provides that.
Sam Gallagher is 100 percent needed we have Danny Graham who isn't getting any younger and a very raw nuttall.
The above players are needed in some form this season but with a view to sign on a permanent next season
Very cleaver if of course they happen.

Robin - to some extent I'm just playing devil's advocate, but as I've said to Champs, I'm wary of giving any manager superstar status.
It all too often comes crashing down.
And, quite seriously, I DO think squads can become TOO big. Obviously, any club can have a devastating run of injuries, but the better the players you get in, the more difficult it becomes to keep everyone happy. The simple fact is, TM's inclination is to have six defensive players (including the holding midfielder), plus a covering winger like Bennett. In fact, quite often, we have had TWO defensive players in central midfield. All I'm saying is, if we get the "Freeman/McGinn" style of player we missed out on, plus one from Brereton/Gallagher, plus one from J. Graham/Chapman, that gives us 13 attacking/creative players for four spots. At the moment, we have three "certainties". Not much room left.
In addition, if we change to only one holding midfielder, who is it going to be? Evans, Smallwood, Travis, Davenport?
At what point does a squad become too big, with very good players having no prospect of a game?
If we have thirty-odd in the squad, Nuttall, Tomlinson and perhaps even Travis can virtually say goodbye to game-time. Very good for our Development Team's unity and strength, but at what point will some of them start to get restless? Of course, they all say they are happy to fight for a place, but I think history is on my side when I say a lot of footballers are quite egotistical!

[robinrover]

We are short up front and badly need a striker,so brereton or Gallagher are needed
Once we have that striker on board nuttall will go out on loan.
Winger wise we have Bennett and a past it conway(Sorry I like him)
Palmer is more favouring the dack role but can play there,so if Graham signs that would be gladwin out on loan if he can get off the physio bench.
That leaves mings
On the surface he might not be needed but mulgrew is starting to concern me so that would leave a unproven downing at this level or Williams playing out of position.
I think all would be useful additions,as for the creative midfield role I am not sure we require that,Unless Mowbray has lost faith in whittingham.

[champs95]

He has. We are listening to offers for Whitingham and Caddis. It was in the LET last night. We also expect 3 to go out on loan. We where always bringing in 4 or 5 and letting that many go out.

The squad he is building is for the Champ. The squad he had was for promotion out of Div1. Hence to moving on of certain players. And the bringing in of ones who will push us on. Rothwell, Palmer, Armstrong, Davenport will help us do that. Moving Caddis and Whitingham etc etc will aswell.

[AucklandRover]

I'd love to see Gallagher as cover for Graham, but would any of the others be close to a start? I've always liked an old-style winger, but I honestly can't see where we could fit one in at the moment. What formation would allow us to have Danny G, Dack, Armstrong, Bennett and Jordan G all on the field at the same time?
If we're talking impact-subs, it's a slightly different matter, but Rothwell and Palmer are clearly in contention as well - as creative players. Managers love to have big squads, but I like to see players play.
The other line of reasoning is "horses for courses", and I'm totally in favour of that, but - for us - isn't that likely to be more a matter of variations in the midfield formation, rather than juggling the attackers?
I'm not being deliberately cussed here. I genuinely can't see the point of numbers for numbers' sake, when the team already has bags of talent available.

[champs95]

I'd love to see Gallagher as cover for Graham, but would any of the others be close to a start? I've always liked an old-style winger, but I honestly can't see where we could fit one in at the moment. What formation would allow us to have Danny G, Dack, Armstrong, Bennett and Jordan G all on the field at the same time?
If we're talking impact-subs, it's a slightly different matter, but Rothwell and Palmer are clearly in contention as well - as creative players. Managers love to have big squads, but I like to see players play.
The other line of reasoning is "horses for courses", and I'm totally in favour of that, but - for us - isn't that likely to be more a matter of variations in the midfield formation, rather than juggling the attackers?
I'm not being deliberately cussed here. I genuinely can't see the point of numbers for numbers' sake, when the team already has bags of talent available.

Why did we sign Bell in Jan when he barley played? And we had an excellent LB already in Williams? The answer.....when he's injured we have a very very decent player to step in. Like today. Like last week.

Has Bell moaned once since he arrived? Hes played a have full of games. And I imagine he came here to play!!

Imagine Bell, but for every position. We need a strong squad. Injuries, suspensions, and different formations.

Bell hasn't suffered. Bell hasn't moaned. Will he take his chance now he's in the side? Yes

Do we have am under 23 ready to step in ...no.


We need to strengthen. That was always the plan. And like last season, with the huge squad we had, everyone will play a part. If they step up, they will play more. Of they don't, they won't. Simple as that

[champs95]

I'd love to see Gallagher as cover for Graham, but would any of the others be close to a start? I've always liked an old-style winger, but I honestly can't see where we could fit one in at the moment. What formation would allow us to have Danny G, Dack, Armstrong, Bennett and Jordan G all on the field at the same time?
If we're talking impact-subs, it's a slightly different matter, but Rothwell and Palmer are clearly in contention as well - as creative players. Managers love to have big squads, but I like to see players play.
The other line of reasoning is "horses for courses", and I'm totally in favour of that, but - for us - isn't that likely to be more a matter of variations in the midfield formation, rather than juggling the attackers?
I'm not being deliberately cussed here. I genuinely can't see the point of numbers for numbers' sake, when the team already has bags of talent available.

But we had a decent Left back in Williams. So why using your logic, did we need to sign Bell? I'd say for times like now. Or we'd be in trouble.

[AucklandRover]

That's one for one in a specific position.
I'm referring to the whole creative/attacking area of the field.
Assuming we are switching to only one holding player in the middle, we are left with five positions to fill. Yes, a couple may go but if we get a centre-forward, a winger and a creative midfielder as TM wants, as it stands, that will be five from those three, plus Bennett, Conway, Gladwin, Rothwell, Whittingham, Tomlinson, Graham, Dack, Armstrong, Palmer, Nuttall, Samuel. That is, five from 15.
In reality, though, Bennett is almost always chosen, while Graham, Dack and Armstrong are virtually certainties.
Effectively, in other words, it is one from 11. If we choose two holding midfielders, there is no place at all for anyone but those mentioned.
Injuries or not, it's overkill to me.

[champs95]

Well you can worry about all that Auks. I'm not going to.

The example isn't the position it as the player. If it's not an issue for Bell or Williams, which it 100% isn't, then it's not a problem for any other player. If Dack gets injured today and is out all season. Who may I ask steps into his big boots? Gladwin? Whitingham?

[AucklandRover]

Well you can worry about all that Auks. I'm not going to.

The example isn't the position it as the player. If it's not an issue for Bell or Williams, which it 100% isn't, then it's not a problem for any other player. If Dack gets injured today and is out all season. Who may I ask steps into his big boots? Gladwin? Whitingham?

Palmer or Armstrong, with one creative midfielder (Rothwell) instead of our usual, more defensive midfield formation.
I'm not sure what you mean about "worrying". I'm simply saying a lot of talented players won't get a look-in.
How many injuries do you make provision for?