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Thread: Another loan update!

  1. #11
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    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellowmiller View Post
    This type of "I know best" response amuses me.
    The recruitment process is what it is and presumably the people involved have known about it from the outset. If not, where have they been?
    As I understand it, the limitations and flexibility within the budget are clearly understood by the recruitment team, if not they certainly should be. Paul Warne has said he's asked to increase offers for players in the past and "has always been backed by the chairman."
    If the manager feels the two loan players on his priority list are essential to give the club a fighting chance of staying up, the deals should be done smoothly and without delay.
    Other clubs seem to manage without problems but we always seem to be behind the door. Hopefully this amateurish approach won't come back to bite us.
    I'm sorry if I have caused offence by trying to add a bit of balance to the debate. I see that you too know best.

    The recruitment process is indeed what it is, which is kind of the point I was making. It's difficult. It's not like buying a newspaper.

    Your argument that deals should be done smoothly and without delay flies in the face of your comment that the recruitment process is what it is. The thrust of my post was that there are multiple parties to the transaction, which means that Rotherham is not in control such as to make deals run smoothly and without delay.

    To develop my house building analogy, the parent club of a player we want may be waiting to bring someone else in before making a decision upon who can go out. They may be waiting to see if other clubs will offer better financial terms. The player himself may be holding out to see if another club comes in who they perceive to offer better career prospects. The possible permutation of problems are almost limitless.

    Your perception is that other clubs manage the process better than Rotherham. How many recruitment processes have you studied in other clubs to reach that conclusion? I look in on Tykes Mad and can say with certainty that Barnsley supporters did not feel that their summer recruitment was handled well. I suspect that is the perception of many supporters of the clubs they follow.

  2. #12
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    Apr 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    I'm sorry if I have caused offence by trying to add a bit of balance to the debate. I see that you too know best.

    The recruitment process is indeed what it is, which is kind of the point I was making. It's difficult. It's not like buying a newspaper.

    Your argument that deals should be done smoothly and without delay flies in the face of your comment that the recruitment process is what it is. The thrust of my post was that there are multiple parties to the transaction, which means that Rotherham is not in control such as to make deals run smoothly and without delay.

    To develop my house building analogy, the parent club of a player we want may be waiting to bring someone else in before making a decision upon who can go out. They may be waiting to see if other clubs will offer better financial terms. The player himself may be holding out to see if another club comes in who they perceive to offer better career prospects. The possible permutation of problems are almost limitless.

    Your perception is that other clubs manage the process better than Rotherham. How many recruitment processes have you studied in other clubs to reach that conclusion? I look in on Tykes Mad and can say with certainty that Barnsley supporters did not feel that their summer recruitment was handled well. I suspect that is the perception of many supporters of the clubs they follow.
    The recruitment process is well known to all clubs and must be relatively straightforward because some deals get done within minutes. You've only got to witness what goes on near to the transfer deadline hour to know that's true.
    I'm not sure what building a house has got to do with it but presumably you know what you're talking about.
    Whether you choose to accept it or not, Rotherham United often seem to struggle to complete deals smoothly and quickly which leaves a lot of supporters disillusioned.
    Once again we seem to be being conditioned to accept that something may happen sooner or maybe later or maybe not at all.
    That is why there is cynicism.

  3. #13
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    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by mellowmiller View Post
    The recruitment process is well known to all clubs and must be relatively straightforward because some deals get done within minutes. You've only got to witness what goes on near to the transfer deadline hour to know that's true.
    I'm not sure what building a house has got to do with it but presumably you know what you're talking about.
    Whether you choose to accept it or not, Rotherham United often seem to struggle to complete deals smoothly and quickly which leaves a lot of supporters disillusioned.
    Once again we seem to be being conditioned to accept that something may happen sooner or maybe later or maybe not at all.
    That is why there is cynicism.
    Of course the recruitment process is known to all clubs, but it isn't straightforward for the reasons that I have set out and which you have failed to address.

    I doubt whether any deals are done in minutes. Be specific. Which ones do you have in mind?

    Many deals are completed near the deadline, which rather supports my point. It's approach focuses the mind and encourages those players and clubs that have been delaying in hope of a better deal to accept what is on the table.

    I'm sorry that you don't get the house buying point.

    Rotherham undoubtedly experience problems in completing some deals quickly and smoothly, given that the recruitment process is what it is. That's not really the point though. Your position is that Rotherham suffers more problems than other clubs, because of some sort of deficiency in the way it is run. That then begs the question that I asked and you didn't answer - which other clubs have you studied in order to reach that conclusion?

  4. #14
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    Nov 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    I'm sorry if I have caused offence by trying to add a bit of balance to the debate. I see that you too know best.

    The recruitment process is indeed what it is, which is kind of the point I was making. It's difficult. It's not like buying a newspaper.

    Your argument that deals should be done smoothly and without delay flies in the face of your comment that the recruitment process is what it is. The thrust of my post was that there are multiple parties to the transaction, which means that Rotherham is not in control such as to make deals run smoothly and without delay.

    To develop my house building analogy, the parent club of a player we want may be waiting to bring someone else in before making a decision upon who can go out. They may be waiting to see if other clubs will offer better financial terms. The player himself may be holding out to see if another club comes in who they perceive to offer better career prospects. The possible permutation of problems are almost limitless.

    Your perception is that other clubs manage the process better than Rotherham. How many recruitment processes have you studied in other clubs to reach that conclusion? I look in on Tykes Mad and can say with certainty that Barnsley supporters did not feel that their summer recruitment was handled well. I suspect that is the perception of many supporters of the clubs they follow.
    The point is that these 2 players are said to be Warnies 1st and 2nd choice targets for the new season but where are the 3rd 4th 5th and even 6th choices? we knew early on that these players would not be released if the other club could not get replacements in and we also knew that these players would only be available as loan players if they were to come here at all. This means that we were hanging on and hanging on and hanging on and hanging, well you get the picture.

    If we do not get these players then where does that leave the team? All our eggs in one basket is STUPID, FOOLISH and SHAMEFUL .
    Good recruitment is the life blood of a football club, it is the beating heart of a team. What we are doing is akin to sitting in a warm bath and slashing our wrists. We are basically committing suicide.

    If we survive this season in the Championship it will be more down to luck than design.

    If the way we have gone about recruitment so far is lessons learned then /god help us.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    89
    Dear Kerr

    Unless we get all our targets all the time then the analysis is we are incompetent and naive thats the law. Your reasoned and well articulated views do not play well in a world of emotional arguments.

    That said i get the disappointment of fellow Millers that we havn't got a CM we needed one badly on sat. I prefer to believe the club did a good job over the summer with limited incentives to offer. Sometimes the big guys win -Thats life i'm afraid.

  6. #16
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    Apr 2006
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    8,082
    Quote Originally Posted by zouch View Post
    Dear Kerr

    Unless we get all our targets all the time then the analysis is we are incompetent and naive thats the law. Your reasoned and well articulated views do not play well in a world of emotional arguments.

    That said i get the disappointment of fellow Millers that we havn't got a CM we needed one badly on sat. I prefer to believe the club did a good job over the summer with limited incentives to offer. Sometimes the big guys win -Thats life i'm afraid.
    Erm, re your first paragraph. Where has anybody said that?
    In fact people are suggesting one of the problems is we don't move quickly enough to alternative targets when the first choices drag on.

  7. #17
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    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLadonOS View Post
    The point is that these 2 players are said to be Warnies 1st and 2nd choice targets for the new season but where are the 3rd 4th 5th and even 6th choices? we knew early on that these players would not be released if the other club could not get replacements in and we also knew that these players would only be available as loan players if they were to come here at all. This means that we were hanging on and hanging on and hanging on and hanging, well you get the picture.

    If we do not get these players then where does that leave the team? All our eggs in one basket is STUPID, FOOLISH and SHAMEFUL .
    Good recruitment is the life blood of a football club, it is the beating heart of a team. What we are doing is akin to sitting in a warm bath and slashing our wrists. We are basically committing suicide.

    If we survive this season in the Championship it will be more down to luck than design.

    If the way we have gone about recruitment so far is lessons learned then /god help us.
    I would imagine that the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th choices are either still available, may become available or have made other arrangements.

    The question that your post raises is that of when the club should switch to alternative targets. Presumably the 1st and 2nd choices have that status because the club management believe that they offer more to the squad than other options.

    When do you think we should have given up on what are believed to be the better players and opt to pursue what are considered to be lesser options?

    It's easy to panic and 'do a Blackstock' - signing someone for fear of losing out and then living with the consequences. It's harder to take a measured approach and try to bring the right players in.

  8. #18
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    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by zouch View Post
    Dear Kerr

    Unless we get all our targets all the time then the analysis is we are incompetent and naive thats the law. Your reasoned and well articulated views do not play well in a world of emotional arguments.

    That said i get the disappointment of fellow Millers that we havn't got a CM we needed one badly on sat. I prefer to believe the club did a good job over the summer with limited incentives to offer. Sometimes the big guys win -Thats life i'm afraid.
    I share the worry and disappointment of other posters. What I don't buy into is the apparent belief of some that signing people is easy, that the club is in control of the market and that deals can be done in minutes. In the absence of evidence, I also don't buy into the notion that the club is worse than any other at recruitment.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    12,503
    Who is the loan arranger?


  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    1,538
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLadonOS View Post
    The point is that these 2 players are said to be Warnies 1st and 2nd choice targets for the new season but where are the 3rd 4th 5th and even 6th choices? we knew early on that these players would not be released if the other club could not get replacements in and we also knew that these players would only be available as loan players if they were to come here at all. This means that we were hanging on and hanging on and hanging on and hanging, well you get the picture.

    If we do not get these players then where does that leave the team? All our eggs in one basket is STUPID, FOOLISH and SHAMEFUL .
    Good recruitment is the life blood of a football club, it is the beating heart of a team. What we are doing is akin to sitting in a warm bath and slashing our wrists. We are basically committing suicide.

    If we survive this season in the Championship it will be more down to luck than design.

    If the way we have gone about recruitment so far is lessons learned then /god help us.
    "If we survive this season in the Championship it will be more down to luck than design" That Biglandon is the worst Quote ive ever read on MM, believe me if we survive this season ie 4th bottom or above it will be down to hard work and tactics, all the players and backroom staff will have earned it, LUCK doesnt last over 46 games in this division. U.T.F.M.

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