Now do the sums. What it's cost us and what could have been

[upthemaggies]

This game eh?
Look at west Ham, they're averaging 57,000 gates, spent tonnes in the summer, appointed a manager who won the Premier League just a few years back and they've got zero points on the board. You'd rather be in their position of course but their fans are probably more despairing than Notts supporters are right now. Topics near the top of their board - "Relegation thread 2018/19", "Improving the atmosphere. ", "good old days.." and "Would we have been better off backing Moyes with 100mil".

The Play-off semi-final just showed how much our luck had turned against us since the turn of the year, still waiting for it to turn back again. Everybody gets a jammy win every now and then, surely we're well overdue one now.

[michelinnotts]

So, if we can't say 'It's his money he can spend it how he likes', what should we say?

'It's his money' - well that's correct. Certainly, he controls the money.

If we can't say 'He can spend it how he likes" the only alternative is to say "and he can should spend it how we say he should". That's never going to work or happen is it?

I may not agree all the time with how it is spent, but at the same time, it's not up to me to tell him what to do.

'Every pound Alan Hardy allocates to our clubs DEBT, is another pound of risk' infers that you think he ought not to be doing it, yet you also say 'we need him to stay doing what he is doing for as long as possible'. Not sure that they fit together!

Are newcastle fans happy with how their club is run by thier chairman? Blackpool? Coventry?

All I'm saying is we should CARE and take an interest. A Chairman is good if he performs well and invests well and runs a club well. Not just becuase he sticks money in. that's what I am saying. Because sticking money in but spending it poorly only increases the risk and bottom line position of the club. By definition, AH has done nothing other than increase our exposure and Risk since he took over. That's not personal, that's fact. He has added to and increased our debt, seen no tangible increase in assets, and has not progressed our football chances of staying up.

Again, it's not personal or about AH, it's about how we judge our owners, how we support them , and what we do and do not view as acceptable from them.

AH hasn't been a bad chairman, nor has he been a good one. It is early days. But I won't be taking the position that he can spend how he wants as it is his money, unless he puts it into the club as sponsorship money or non repayable donations, because if it is put in as loans, it is club debt, not AH debt.

[matt_magpie]

I don't doubt you know what you are talking about, michelinnotts, but surely Notts County are not the only club in this situation? There must be many other lower-league clubs in a far more parlous state than we are (not that that helps us) but I don't see them folding.

I don't have a clue how these things work but is it not possible that it really IS AH's own money he's spending? The last I heard, when he had just bought Notts was that he had an estimated worth of £80million. Of course I must assume most of that is tied up in his business enterprises, but not ALL, surely?

One thing that does worry me though is the fact(?) that AH is charging us interest at the rate of £160,000 a year. How does he ever expect to get that back?

I am a Hardy fan, I love his enthusiasm and drive to improve Notts but by his own admission he's made some mistakes which is understandable but when you talk about £750k overspend that's quite a big one for a L2 club. Also not totally sure of the players he's referring to, I would hazard a guess obviously at Noble, maybe Husin (not that I think he's bad but the fact he hasn't played much) that said they seem to rate him.
What's more startling though on the face of it we must be spending more this season with the players we have bought in. He referred to results will dictate everything, my initial reaction was has he been drawn in and gone for a "boom or bust" strategy and if we don't go up we will be in trouble? At the Kewell press conference he looked a broken man, I personally think he should come off Twitter, the abuse won't do him any good and tbf it just gives a public platform for the negativity from a small set of people to spread. I do think Kewell is the right guy, but I think he maybe a similar risk (boom or bust) as I believe he has the ability but he appears to be a very strong character to me and if players start rebelling, yes he can sort it out and get rid in Jan, but with 1 point out of 6 games promotion will be off the cards. Is an obviously thing to say, we need a win on the board, genuinely think tomorrows game is one of the most important in months, a win away to a very strong side and suddenly players and fans may start believing, a loss and a bad one, then it starts to feel very desperate. COYP

[michelinnotts]

I don't doubt you know what you are talking about, michelinnotts, but surely Notts County are not the only club in this situation? There must be many other lower-league clubs in a far more parlous state than we are (not that that helps us) but I don't see them folding.

I don't have a clue how these things work but is it not possible that it really IS AH's own money he's spending? The last I heard, when he had just bought Notts was that he had an estimated worth of £80million. Of course I must assume most of that is tied up in his business enterprises, but not ALL, surely?

One thing that does worry me though is the fact(?) that AH is charging us interest at the rate of £160,000 a year. How does he ever expect to get that back?

you make a really good point. I did say in another post that our situation is the lot of CLUBS, not just our club. there is a huge variation from top to bottom in terms of what clubs are losing every season. How much they are losing and how much CASH reserves their owners have and are prepared to put into the club is how we judge how stable the clubs are. There are clubs in league 1 and 2 that actually are sustainable without large cash injections from benefactor owners and interestingly ( perhaps coincidently at present , perhaps not) some of those are peforming well on the pitch, Accrington Stanley, Newport, Wimbledon, Exeter, Wycombe are all sitting prettier than us at present.

Without being too dramatic, we are one of the largest spenders in league 2 and would be above mid table on spend in league 1 this season. AH said today he spent £750K OVER budget last season, that's not just a few mistakes, that's absolutely shockingly poor management. Yes he says he has learned, well I guess we need to hope so because that just isn't sustainable as not only did he OVER spend 3/4 of what some of those clubs above us on the pyramid spend in TOTAL, but that spend saw us sitting rock bottom of the league table.

So yes, our lot is not uncommon among EFL clubs , but we are currently the worst of a bad lot. We are the worst in terms of spend V ladder position.

for some idea there is a list below of average weekly player wage at all clubs last season.

Accrington Stanley £635
Barnet £674
Cambridge United £900
Carlisle United £1,115
Cheltenham Town £789
Chesterfield £1,181
Colchester United £1,353
Coventry City £1,104
Crawley Town £940
Crewe Alexandra £919
Exeter City £995
Forest Green Rovers £1,338
Grimsby Town £1,060
Lincoln City £1,712
Luton Town £2,101
Mansfield Town £1,490
Morecambe £698
Newport County £747
Notts County £1,428
Port Vale £991
Stevenage £1,240
Swindon Town £1,381
Wycombe Wanderers £1,137
Yeovil Town £1,044

[michelinnotts]

Great post and I agree with you. The £750K amount is a strange one. I count 32 squad players last year but that was in August 2017 and I didn't include KN in that. We had other comings and goings but that's an approx squad size. at the published average player wage of around £1428 per week, that would have the annual wage last year being around £2,376,192 a big number. So we may assume AH only budgeted to spend around £1.5M at the start of the season?

that would seem a reasonable budget but would have placed us in the mid to lower end of the league 2 spend and with 32 players he would need to have reduced that average weekly wage to just less than £1000 per week, so put that in context with some of the other clubs that were spending that above.

[upthemaggies]

Hardy must have taken some bad advice, assuming he does listen.

[magpie_mania]

'AH has done nothing other than increase our exposure and Risk since he took over. That's not personal, that's fact. He has added to and increased our debt, seen no tangible increase in assets, and has not progressed our football chances of staying up.

Again, it's not personal or about AH, it's about how we judge our owners, how we support them , and what we do and do not view as acceptable from them'.

So you don't agree with the way AH is running the club. I get that, you've made it clear.

What then should the owners be doing?

[countygump]

Hardy must have taken some bad advice, assuming he does listen.

I remember Alan saying the win bonuses were costing him a small fortune but surely not 750K???

[americanpie]

I often sit here, at my computer, and wonder how Ray Trew is filling his time these days.

[seriouspie]

Serious for the past few years you've been telling anyone who'll listen you're a master of business knowledge, only people who own businesses know anything and anyone left of centre is an unwashed tramp. This is why you're always making a fool of yourself and come across as know it all, patronising @rsehole. Still I expect to congratulate myself next time I cost cut or manage my own personal finances as the next big thing, afterwards I must remember to tell everyone I know about how they know nothing of business and are all idiots.

Right I'm off to watch the sunset on the beach in Bali across from my five star hotel I'm staying in for three weeks, not bad for a left wing, care homereceptionist. I guess I must have managed my money well this year but I'll try not to tell everyone how superior I am to them as guess what? I'm not superior to anyone at all, try remember that next time you're calling us all idiots.

Have a good afternoon.

Thank you - and a safe journey home.