+ Visit Rotherham United FC Mad for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results
Page 8 of 11 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 106

Thread: o/t Does anyone seriously believe Corbyn is an anti-semite?

  1. #71
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    39,318
    I haven't a clue how anyone on this thread thinks that diverting their frustrations towards me is winning any debate!

    It is shameful that those who cry out for equality and democracy should want to ruin what could be a good debate.

    I have always enjoyed a good debate and this particular sensitive part of history interests me but I see that it is one we're not able to freely debate without someone closing it down.

    Petty, shameful and disrespectful beaviour should never win!

    If you haven't anything to add to this debate other than slagging someone off then don't bloody post. I won't be posting for the rest of the evening so knock yourselves out oif you want to ignore me! I'll have a good read tomorrow!

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    24,672
    It is a good debate now Frog sometimes you have to take 2 paces backwards to go 3 steps forwards. There is also a lot of humour here that some don't interpret. I have joined in myself now because I think it is getting somewhere. Don't think it will end up in WW3
    Last edited by rolymiller; 09-09-2018 at 06:41 PM.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    7,296
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    I notice that you are not answering my question: as I said, Corbyn clearly states that "Zionists who were in the audience" (referring quite clearly to the Zionists who were in the audience! How do you take from that quote that he somehow sees all British Zionists as being apart from the population? Please quote directly from the film where he says that, as I can't see it.

    I'm not a member of Momentum.

    I too would be interested in hearing Corbyn's views on Venezuala's current regime. I know he admired Shavez and welcomed his successor, but I'd be interested to know why his successor has taken the country in the direction it has gone (very different to what Shavez stood for) and Corbyn's feelings on it. But as well as hoisting him up on the fire for constant anti-semitism and terrorist sympathising, I don't see why we shouldn't hold him to account on South American countries too...
    Why would you draw a distinction between the Zionists in the room and UK Zionists generally? By definition, they all hold Zionist views.

    Maduro has maintained the Socialist policies of Chavez and it is their actions together that have reduced the country to where it is – poverty for the many, not the few. There is a lesson there somewhere. It is a lesson that has been delivered many times since Marx ‘invented’ Socialism, but some people just don’t seem to get it.

    I too would love to know what Corbyn’s views on Maduro are, but despite being someone who you say has historically ‘argued and stood on the side of the people that he considers to be oppressed’ he really didn’t want to talk about Maduro when given the chance last year:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...government-may


    What’s your excuse for his reticence?

    I noticed that you passed over Cuba too, you sly old fox. Why can’t a man who has, according to you historically ‘argued and stood on the side of the people that he considers to be oppressed’ bring himself to criticise the actions of the Castro dynasty? What is the approved Corbynista excuse for that?

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    7,296
    Quote Originally Posted by nakedtruth View Post
    You actually fell for that?

    I have a sense of irony, Grist.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    7,296
    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Ok - I'll run with that. In the historical struggle between two cultures in one territory, you begin your account in 1918 and the dismantlement of the Ottoman Empire, of whose people had lived in the whole area for several hundred years. You talk as if this was ground zero, and the history before that wasn't and isn't an issue.

    Which religion were the Ottoman people?

    I would agree that Jews had been settling back into Palestine for years leading up to the 1st war and beyond but this occured without significant conflict between the two religions. It was only when the carve up happened in 1948, and a chunk of former Palestinian land was suddenly designated as 'Israel', with official borders etc that severe issues came, not least by way of resentment from the Muslim people who had existed there for centuries! Surely that's an important aspect to write into your account?
    Bimey. How far back would you like me to go? The early hominds who came out of Africa?

    Since the 7th century, the region known as Palestine was occupied by predominantly Muslim people. There was a Jewish population throughout, however. In 1099, the Jewish population of the area fought alongside the Muslims against the 1st Crusade (and were massacred for it). After Saladin took Jerusalem in 1187 he encouraged Jews to return to the city and guaranteed their safety and rights.

    The Ottoman Empire was generally tolerant of both its Christian and Jewish citizens, with some occasional exceptions.

    The return of Jews to the area known as Palestine was largely peaceful under the Ottoman Empire, but the suggestion that everything was ok until 1948 is just plain wrong. The British mandate over the area saw numerous uprisings as a reaction to the influx of Jews that occurred during that time culminating in The Great Revolt of 1936 onwards.

    Where are you going with this? I’m guessing that you want to join WanChai and, it seems, Corbyn and half the Labour Party in their rather naïve, starkly black and white and simplistic view of the history of the area, but the reality is that the Jewish settlement of the area had been a long slow burn long before the UN passed Resolution 181. The Jewish people there in 1948 included people from families who had lived in the area for centuries. The UN proposed a two state solution to the situation that already existed on the ground , but the Arabs refused electing to try to ‘push the Jews into the sea’. The rest is a rather tragic history.
    Last edited by KerrAvon; 09-09-2018 at 08:00 PM.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    7,296
    Quote Originally Posted by rolymiller View Post
    One for you Kerr and all tied up with the thread start in my opinion (and not being childish or offensive) you posted this:

    Yes, some atrocities were committed against Arab Palestinians and some were driven from their homes during the 1948 war and Israel continues to behave at times in way that is unlikely to secure lasting peace, but, as I stated, Israel is a secular parliamentary democracy with a free press and an independent judiciary

    Do you not think that it is very glib to talk about atrocities in this way? Does a state who you admit behaves badly and i would argue murderously badly be a truly democratic state? What would you say if the British government did something similar in say Ireland? Could we just write it off as being a bit naughty? What democratic processes allows such atrocities to take place? Surely truly democratic proesses would stop this happening. Or are you saying the majority of ordinary Israelis voted for this so its ok?
    An atrocity is an atrocity. How would you like me to describe it? In the hand wringing 'condemnation of violence on all sides' way that Corbyn does when faced with the unpalatable actions of his friends?

    The people of Israel - Jewish, Muslim, Christian and non-religious get to choose their government in free elections - that's democracy. At the minute they have chosen a government that is pressing on with the settlement of the West Bank and the de facto blockade of Gaza. My view is that both of those policies reduce the prospect of a peaceful resolution of the conflict, but would imagine that the views of the electorate are influenced by the words and actions of the people in Hamas that Corbyn refers to as his 'friends' who are committed to the destruction of the state of Israel (with its population of 8 million).

    There is a great a deal of vocal dissent within Israel to some of the policies and actions of its government. The dissenters get to express criticisms of the government without being imprisoned as they would be in Venezuela - the government of which Corbyn cannot bring himself to censure.
    Last edited by KerrAvon; 09-09-2018 at 08:18 PM.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    11,170
    An anti semite, a racist and a Russian agent walks into a bar and the Landlord says.....

    Hello Mr Corbyn
    Last edited by flourbasher; 09-09-2018 at 08:17 PM. Reason: U

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,309
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    Bimey. How far back would you like me to go? The early hominds who came out of Africa?

    Since the 7th century, the region known as Palestine was occupied by predominantly Muslim people. There was a Jewish population throughout, however. In 1099, the Jewish population of the area fought alongside the Muslims against the 1st Crusade (and were massacred for it). After Saladin took Jerusalem in 1187 he encouraged Jews to return to the city and guaranteed their safety and rights.

    The Ottoman Empire was generally tolerant of both its Christian and Jewish citizens, with some occasional exceptions.

    The return of Jews to the area known as Palestine was largely peaceful under the Ottoman Empire, but the suggestion that everything was ok until 1948 is just plain wrong. The British mandate over the area saw numerous uprisings as a reaction to the influx of Jews that occurred during that time culminating in The Great Revolt of 1936 onwards.

    Where are you going with this? I’m guessing that you want to join WanChai and, it seems, Corbyn and half the Labour Party in their rather naïve, starkly black and white and simplistic view of the history of the area, but the reality is that the Jewish settlement of the area had been a long slow burn long before the UN passed Resolution 181. The Jewish people there in 1948 included people from families who had lived in the area for centuries. The UN proposed a two state solution to the situation that already existed on the ground , but the Arabs refused electing to try to ‘push the Jews into the sea’. The rest is a rather tragic history.
    How far back would I like you to go with your re-write off history? I guess I'd like you to acknowledge that for 200+ years before the start of Jews returning to the Palestine area as you described, it was a substantial majority Muslim state and that, for such huge territorial carve ups and subsequent occupations even of the land allocated to them post 1948, this historical story (omitted by yourself) is pretty fundamental in understanding Palestinian anger.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,309
    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    Why would you draw a distinction between the Zionists in the room and UK Zionists generally? By definition, they all hold Zionist views.

    Maduro has maintained the Socialist policies of Chavez and it is their actions together that have reduced the country to where it is – poverty for the many, not the few. There is a lesson there somewhere. It is a lesson that has been delivered many times since Marx ‘invented’ Socialism, but some people just don’t seem to get it.

    I too would love to know what Corbyn’s views on Maduro are, but despite being someone who you say has historically ‘argued and stood on the side of the people that he considers to be oppressed’ he really didn’t want to talk about Maduro when given the chance last year:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...government-may


    What’s your excuse for his reticence?

    I noticed that you passed over Cuba too, you sly old fox. Why can’t a man who has, according to you historically ‘argued and stood on the side of the people that he considers to be oppressed’ bring himself to criticise the actions of the Castro dynasty? What is the approved Corbynista excuse for that?
    No Kerr. The question should be why would you, when Corbyn explicitly says in the speech (I put it up for you on video, why dont you actually watch it?) that he is referring to the Zionists in the room at that speech that then protested, would you go on to suggest that he is referring to Zionists generally?? Pretend you're in court and you have those exact words to draw on, how would you allow an accusor to draw the same conclusions that you have?

    So I ask again. For the third time. What words in the speech, and please provide direct quotes (I've given you the video) that show that Corbyn is talking about all UK zionists?

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    25,061
    The whole point of the Labour movement is to stand up for working people , fight exploitation and fight for a greater share of the spoils .

    That under Corbyn is where the fight is , now people can point to this , that and whatever , he said this , he did that and met with whoever .

    Fine but let's not get sidelined by where the real fight really lies today .

    In my lifetime I've never encountered such a campaign against a Labour leader , my gut instinct tells me he's more than on to something and poweful self interested people don't care for it .

    I could name many flaws within the conservative leadership past and present but that doesn't appear to grab the headlines as much , who exactly was in charge of the home office when the Windrush project started ? and that's only the tip of a very large iceberg .

    A remarkable tactic is getting played out here , which isn't to say it couldn't have been handled better but it's a deflective policy from a party and associates that ain't that great themselves if the truth be told when it comes to racism and equality .


    Why did a old leftie back bencher from Islington ever become leader of a real player in UK politics .

    The reasons for that tell us where we are as a nation .

    It aint working chaps for far too many people , it would be acceptable to see that addressed by the centre ground and we can all vote accordingly .

    Me neither .
    Last edited by animallittle3; 09-09-2018 at 10:04 PM.

Page 8 of 11 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •