Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 63

Thread: September 11th 2001 Recollections

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    I’m generally a believer in the banality of evil so my default position is despite all the f*cked up things done by members of our race, the 9/11 conspiracy theories tell a story of evil that is too cartoonish. Individual humans can commit great evil motivated by pure self interest but a conspiracy usually requires an overriding moral justification or collective delusion to commit evil or collective self interest to hide evil from sight. It’s rare for humans to conspire together to proactively commit a great evil in a purely selfish pursuit. We fear the judgment of our fellow man.

    On a different note, this really brings it home. Leaves you with an empty feeling inside:
    https://youtu.be/fC_AHSacEDg
    https://youtu.be/JzKI9TBR-XQ

    That never fails to shock and sicken me...

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by 57vintage View Post
    The other one in 2001 - at work, and me and the Christian wifie who was my assistant asked the same question, "When will the west stop giving nutters the reason to hate us?"
    Granted, waging war against the Islamic Middle East while inviting in the Islamic Middle East probably wonít be viewed as the smartest move with hindsight.

    Given that a segment of the community gets very upset and thinks itís OK to murder people simply because someone depicted the prophet in a cartoon or said a few naughty words about him, itís hardly surprising that some question whether diversity (of the female genital mutilation variety) as a whole has been worth it.

  3. #43
    All this made me stick on Fahrenheit 9/11. First time I have watched it in ages.

    It does throw up some important questions but gradually turns in to a bit of a bore fest.

    I don't personally read too much in to the time it took Bush to be escorted out the school where he was reading kids stories. Safety protocol etc would probably have had to been hastily revised given the gravity of the attack.

    A load of Saudis including 24 members of Bin Ladens family being allowed to fly out the USA during the flight ban is a bit more suspicious though.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Campsie
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by mondo_notion View Post

    A load of Saudis including 24 members of Bin Ladens family being allowed to fly out the USA during the flight ban is a bit more suspicious though.
    According to the 9/11 Commission which investigated this, the "Bin Laden" flight took place on the 20th of September, 7 days after restrictions were lifted.

    From the 9/11 Commission,https://www.9-11commission.gov/report/ footnote to chapter 10, Section 28:-

    These flights were screened by law enforcement officials, primarily the FBI. For example, one flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. Screening of this flight was directed by an FBI agent in the Baltimore Field Office who was also a pilot … The Bin Ladin flight and other flights we examined were screened in accordance with policies set by FBI headquarters and coordinated through working-level interagency processes. Although most of the passengers were not interviewed, 22 of the 26 people on the Bin Ladin flight were interviewed by the FBI. Many were asked detailed questions. None of the passengers stated that they had any recent contact with Usama Bin Ladin or knew anything about terrorist activity.

  5. #45
    A Channel 5 documentary last night had two metallurgists on last night staying that the explosions caused within the WTC Buildings were caused by molten aluminium reacting with water to create explosive conditions. They quite rightly pointed out that the NIST report didn't include the fact that there was two aeroplanes inside each building containing around 30 tonnes of aluminium. The said that the debris of the planes had been covered by various detritus within the building creating furnace like conditions.

    All seemed very plausible when compared with the NIST report; however, there was no reference to the WTC7 collapse. To the layman's eye WTC7 looked like a very similar collapse the the North & South Towers. But...there was no plane within the building

    As with the 9/11 Commission report & the NIST report there is no mention or explanation why this WTC7 building collapsed.

    Indeed you can cherry pick segments out of the 9/11 Commission report (the Bin Laden flight was nonsense and easy to disprove, just like the celebrating Israelis or the crap about some of the hijackers still being alive) but can you take it seriously if it fails to mention the collpase of the WTC7?

    Why are the wasting space in the report discussing the Bin Laden family leaving the USA and not mentioning the collapse of a third building in NYC?

    With regards oddities, I've always thought it would be interesting to find out why Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defence, thought it was wise to be out on the Pentagon lawn helping people and picking up fragments of the crashed plane soon after the attack and not at his command post?

    I would argue that Bush's failure to leave the school promptly is very relevant. It shows that neither he nor his Secret Service were in command of this situation and that they were likely taking orders from the White House...
    Last edited by BogBrush1903; 12-09-2018 at 11:52 AM.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Campsie
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by BogBrush1903 View Post
    A Channel 5 documentary last night had two metallurgists on last night staying that the explosions caused within the WTC Buildings were caused by molten aluminium reacting with water to create explosive conditions. They quite rightly pointed out that the NIST report didn't include the fact that there was two aeroplanes inside each building containing around 30 tonnes of aluminium. The said that the debris of the planes had been covered by various detritus within the building creating furnace like conditions.

    All seemed very plausible when compared with the NIST report; however, there was no reference to the WTC7 collapse. To the layman's eye WTC7 looked like a very similar collapse the the North & South Towers. But...there was no plane within the building

    As with the 9/11 Commission report & the NIST report there is no mention or explanation why this WTC7 building collapsed.

    Indeed you can cherry pick segments out of the 9/11 Commission report (the Bin Laden flight was nonsense and easy to disprove, just like the celebrating Israelis or the crap about some of the hijackers still being alive) but can you take it seriously if it fails to mention the collpase of the WTC7?

    Why are the wasting space in the report discussing the Bin Laden family leaving the USA and not mentioning the collapse of a third building in NYC?

    With regards oddities, I've always thought it would be interesting to find out why Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defence, thought it was wise to be out on the Pentagon lawn helping people and picking up fragments of the crashed plane soon after the attack and not at his command post?

    I would argue that Bush's failure to leave the school promptly is very relevant. It shows that neither he nor his Secret Service were in command of this situation and that they were likely taking orders from the White House...
    If you want to read the NIST report into why WT7 collapsed, here it is. https://www.nist.gov/publications/fi...?pub_id=861610 If you have any issue with it, I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to defend it as I am not a structural engineer. I merely send you the link in case you think it didn't exist.

    You saying the Bin Laden flight was nonsense doesn't stop with it being repeated ad nasuem. To leave out any mention would surely invite Truthers to go "...and notice they didn't mention anything about the Bin Laden flight in the official report, fu(kin telt you it's a conspiracy..."

    As for Donald Rumsfeld out on the lawn picking up fragments, I've never heard that one before. Full Quote:- ""I wanted to see what had happened. I wanted to see if people needed help. I went downstairs and helped for a bit with some people on stretchers. Then I came back up here and started – I realized I had to get back up here and get at it." Again, probably just chalk it up to confusion/chaos in the immediate aftermath of an extraordinary event. tbh, wish he'd stayed a fu(kin stretcher bearer than going around starting wars in countries that had nowt to do with it.

  7. #47
    I remember 9/11 well, I was doing some refurbishment work at the Hillside Hotel in Portlethen, the owner shouted through that he had made some grub, we went and sat at the bar having a beer and burger and chips, TV was on and I thought for a minute it was a Bruce Willis style film that was on, unbelievable feelings when we watched the first tower collapse.
    To this day I still think there were a lot of questions that were never answered, being that I'm an avid reader of conspiracy theories I maybe over analyse everything.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Meldrum Rock City
    Posts
    25,055
    Quote Originally Posted by seeyazander View Post
    I remember 9/11 well, I was doing some refurbishment work at the Hillside Hotel in Portlethen,
    Waste of time that. Surely the Hillside was knocked doon pretty sharp after that

    (or did it fall down due to your refurb?)

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacman1903 View Post
    Waste of time that. Surely the Hillside was knocked doon pretty sharp after that

    (or did it fall down due to your refurb?)
    Aye it was only open another couple of years after that, was a great place to go on a Sunday for the footie, one game sticks out in my mind sitting there, the mighty Hamilton beating the Souness Huns.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Meldrum Rock City
    Posts
    25,055
    I have a story about the Hillside. My only ever visit. My auntie and uncle had their whatever metal wedding party there in he mid 90s.We had the pikeys at home. My old boy, my bro and me had to leave the game early as we had to go and get my ma in Ellon and head back to Portlethen.

    Left the Merkland at 1-1 with 15 to go. Got out the stand as we went up 2-1.By the time we got to the he car at Orchard st it was 3-2(canna mind which way) and by the time we were in Brig o Don it was 3-3.

    Moral of the story. F@ck family parties

  11. #51
    I was in the lab when it came on the radio, that a plane had crashed into one of the towers - someone said it was a fighter plane and an accident. Someone else I worked with said 'we should rebuild the tower out of Palestinian bones' not politically correct at all.

    One of my relatives in New York didn't go into work in one of the towers that morning because of child care arrangements - and missed the whole thing luckily. Another was climbing the stairs out of the subway when tower 1 was coming down and legged it. Life is precious, you really have to appreciate that.

    I also came through Logan Airport two years previously, and the security was shockingly poor - so no surprise that several of the attackers used it as a point of entry.
    Last edited by Hairdrier; 12-09-2018 at 07:24 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Hairdrier View Post
    One of my relatives in New York didn't go into work in one of the towers that morning because of child care arrangements - and missed the whole thing luckily. Another was climbing the stairs out of the subway when tower 1 was coming down and legged it. Life is precious, you really have to appreciate that.

    I also came through Logan Airport two years previously, and the security was shockingly poor - so no surprise that several of the attackers used it as a point of entry.
    There would have been so many near misses that day. Mark Wahlberg and Seth McFarlane both had tickets for Flight 11. McFarlane actually missed the flight because he turned up late. There was also a guy who missed Pan Am Flight 103 because he was drinking at the bar in the airport and lost track of time.

    McFarlane has been pretty philosophical about it. You could walk outside and narrowly avoid being hit by a bus or you could almost have a high speed collision. People have near misses all the time - his near miss was just a mass casualty event forever etched into the national consciousness.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    There would have been so many near misses that day. Mark Wahlberg and Seth McFarlane both had tickets for Flight 11. McFarlane actually missed the flight because he turned up late. There was also a guy who missed Pan Am Flight 103 because he was drinking at the bar in the airport and lost track of time.

    McFarlane has been pretty philosophical about it. You could walk outside and narrowly avoid being hit by a bus or you could almost have a high speed collision. People have near misses all the time - his near miss was just a mass casualty event forever etched into the national consciousness.
    Johnny Rotten and his wife were also booked on Pam Am Flight 103 but cancelled in the afternoon of the flight.

    Christian Panucci, the manager of Albania on Monday night and goalscorer of the Italian winner at Hampden in 2007, had a near miss in 1996 when flying home injured from the Atlanta Olympics. He was booked on TWA Flight 800 that crashed in the Atlantic Ocean with no survivors but had been held up at Atlanta Airport and changed flights.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    There would have been so many near misses that day. Mark Wahlberg and Seth McFarlane both had tickets for Flight 11.
    Mark Wahlberg missing the flight was a near miss for Big Mo Atta and the lads because he would've stopped them and landed the plane safely. He said so in an interview.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by StandfreeFM View Post
    If you want to read the NIST report into why WT7 collapsed, here it is. https://www.nist.gov/publications/fi...?pub_id=861610 If you have any issue with it, I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to defend it as I am not a structural engineer. I merely send you the link in case you think it didn't exist.

    You saying the Bin Laden flight was nonsense doesn't stop with it being repeated ad nasuem. To leave out any mention would surely invite Truthers to go "...and notice they didn't mention anything about the Bin Laden flight in the official report, fu(kin telt you it's a conspiracy..."

    As for Donald Rumsfeld out on the lawn picking up fragments, I've never heard that one before. Full Quote:- ""I wanted to see what had happened. I wanted to see if people needed help. I went downstairs and helped for a bit with some people on stretchers. Then I came back up here and started – I realized I had to get back up here and get at it." Again, probably just chalk it up to confusion/chaos in the immediate aftermath of an extraordinary event. tbh, wish he'd stayed a fu(kin stretcher bearer than going around starting wars in countries that had nowt to do with it.
    I stand corrected with regards the NIST report and I shall read it too, despite not being a Structural Engineer either...

    I'm disinclined to dismiss things to confusion on this particular day due partially because of my mistrust of politicians, partially because people in power always consider how they can use situations to their benefit (remember Labour press officer Jo Moore's memo stating that was "9/11 was a good day to bury bad news", and partially because I don't think confusion covers the action of some on 9/11).

    An example would be the NYC mayor at the time, Rudy Giuliani. Why did he say months after the event that they evacuated the Emergency Room he had specifically created in WTC7 for events like 9/11 because they had been informed that the towers going to collapse in a TV interview? No-one knew the first tower (the South I think) was going to collapse until it did. A slip of the tongue perhaps or false memory but why then avoid responding to questions about those comments from that day hence?

    No wonder wild conspiracy theories appear online when those in power tend to be evasive when people query them...
    Last edited by BogBrush1903; 13-09-2018 at 11:18 AM.

  16. #56
    I'm sure one of the creators or producers of Cheers and Frasier died on the Washington DC flight.

    EDIT - David Angell did indeed die but on one of the twin tower flights. He was a writer on Cheers and co-created and produced Frasier.
    Last edited by Aldo1983; 13-09-2018 at 12:01 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo1983 View Post
    I'm sure one of the creators or producers of Cheers and Frasier died on the Washington DC flight.

    EDIT - David Angell did indeed die but on one of the twin tower flights. He was a writer on Cheers and co-created and produced Frasier.


    Correct, and Anthony Perkins (Hitchock's Psycho) widow also died on the same flight as Angell, who always reminds of the Fast Show...

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Hairdrier View Post
    I also came through Logan Airport two years previously, and the security was shockingly poor - so no surprise that several of the attackers used it as a point of entry.
    Considine Airport even worse apparently

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by redstarfk View Post
    Considine Airport even worse apparently
    Post of the year

  20. #60
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Meldrum Rock City
    Posts
    25,055
    Quote Originally Posted by redstarfk View Post
    Considine Airport even worse apparently

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •