O/T Would You Welcome Another Referendum On Brexit ?

[Romared]

Av put mi footdarn today , wife wants a new toorsta , av sed no , " she allus Breksit " deerf n dumb suppa tuneet then !!

[Acido]

Av put mi footdarn today , wife wants a new toorsta , av sed no , " she allus Breksit " deerf n dumb suppa tuneet then !!

If your missis has said that this is a crappi thread Roma... then yes I totally agree with the lass.
Other than that though, I didnt understand a damn word of what your last post was about!!.

[animallittle3]

Worse than that owd lad, they'll be rioting and a total embarrassment of our country, sovereignty, and democracy.
What would be the point on voting on anything ever again.

And please don't mention Soubry's pants this close to tea time ever again !

No doubt there will be rioting , it could get really nasty .

You can see where Labour are heading and waiting for the right electoral moment to put it out there , their dangling that carrot and waiting for the next opinion polls before taking another step .

As a no deal brexit becomes more likely they will take another one and another one .

That's my theory anyway , always seen brexit as the golden egg to bring the tories down red flagged .

These things should be taken with a pinch of salt but I've seen a poll if there were to be another referendum giving Remain 55% and Leave 45% .

I reckon if that figure reaches across a number of polls consistently and reaches 60% Labour may well strike .

[b1gduk]

This campaign for another referendum seems to be growing by the day , Mayor of London Sadiq Khan is the latest high profile politician to throw his weight behind this and try to get Corbyn and Labour onside with the idea .

I get the narrative the referendum had more than a hint of skulldugery at play , Leave especially but Remain weren't innocent either .

I get the potential impact of leaving the EU on the people of this country wasn't there , due to the fact Remain fought a poor campaign or the information wasn't available then as it perhaps is now .

The thing is if we have another referendum and Remain win then won't Leave then be entitled to campaign for a third referendum and make it the best of three , like a Lions tour to New Zealand perhaps !!!!! .

I get the sentiment but another referendum will just create yet more splits in political parties which isn't great for democracy and anything other than another victory for Leave will enhance the popularity of the Far Right , not great either if you look at history .

Leave of course could win again and then that will be that you would imagine but then again if it's with an even less winning margin than originally we are possibly back where we are now today .

The only thing that would put this to bed forever is a comprehensive victory for Leave and that's not guaranteed either .

A comprehensive victory for Remain wouldn't work in the same way as they lost the original referendum .


What an absolute shambles we are right now as a nation , or should I say our politicians are and that goes for both the major parties .

We wanted to "Take back control" well we reap what we sow. Control in the hands of these self serving incompetant politicians. Control our borders, well this wont have any effect on non eu immigration which is by far the largest chunk and to say we didnt realise the impact OMG ... We should never have left such an important vote go to the people. Sorry ... it was always as any general election does, gets the "lets stick two fingers up votes". So now as the pound has slumps, commodities we buy in Dollars and Euros will rise, so we will see high prices in the shops and fuel pumps and utility bills we become the laughing stock of our closest allies and by largest trading block in the world instead of being held in high regard with concessions other nations couldn't manage. The problem now is even if we did change out mind, we are so discredited, we could never threaten to leave again and would have to adopt even more undesirable EU rules. We will lose many finance and industrial jobs as they go abroad (predicted all the way). Holidays are now 1/3 more expensive that they were 2 years ago so many families cannot afford a Spanish holiday now, hence the rise in Staycation breaks. Sadly the people that this will affect the most are those that rely on the sorts of jobs the EU relationship supports and the social rights protect. Was the EU perfect, far from it but we have many bigger issues facing us such as climate change, foreign terrorism and Russia where we need strong bond with the other great and civilised nations of Europe not alienate them not play Billy Big Britain and up yours. Its our Children that will feel the impact of this decision for decades to come and will not enjoy the freedoms of travel that we are so willing to throw away, just so we can say up yours.

Short Term Pain for Long Term Gain .... Hello would those other trading nations rather do a deal with the EU into France Germany Spain Portugal Italy etc in other word, the largest trading block in the World ... or little Britain ? We will be marginalised ... It is not the 1970's anymore "we never used to be in the EU" ... All rosy way it back then was it ....

We had record employment, we were paying down the deficit (although this is debatable that was the plan), our pound was strong £1.41 / Euro we played a key role in the largest trading block in the world. We could have sorted this from the inside, now we will have to pay to play a bit part role from the outside.

Oh forgot to say... Get those fixed rate mortages in now while the interest rates are relatively low !

[upthecolliers]

Could not agree more Big Duk.

[KerrAvon]

No doubt there will be rioting , it could get really nasty .

You can see where Labour are heading and waiting for the right electoral moment to put it out there , their dangling that carrot and waiting for the next opinion polls before taking another step .

As a no deal brexit becomes more likely they will take another one and another one .

That's my theory anyway , always seen brexit as the golden egg to bring the tories down red flagged .

These things should be taken with a pinch of salt but I've seen a poll if there were to be another referendum giving Remain 55% and Leave 45% .

I reckon if that figure reaches across a number of polls consistently and reaches 60% Labour may well strike .

What is your planet like, animal. How does it compare to earth?

Let me explain the reality of the last three days for Labour. Facing pressure from its Remainers (whipped up, in part, by Gina Miller), the party came up with the standard political response – a fudge - in which ‘all options’ remain on the table. Within hours McDonnell (a man with far better developed political antenna than most of the Labour leadership) was trying to turn that into a vote only about the terms of an exit. Starmer then hit back today by explicitly interpreting it as a vote on whether to remain.

In other words, Labour aren’t dangling a carrot as you assert – that implies direction and leadership. In fact they are being tossed around and lurching to and fro due to their own internal divisions.

As for Europe bringing the Tories down and ‘Labour striking’, how do you think that will work? Under the Fixed Term Parliament Act, there are only two routes to an early GE; the first in which two thirds or more of MPs vote for an early General Election, which isn’t going to happen, or the second in which the government lose a vote of no confidence, which can’t happen unless enough Tories or the DUP vote against the government, which, again, isn’t going to happen. Even if by some miracle, enough Tories or the DUP rebelled such as to carry a no confidence motion, the government would then have 14 days to hold another no confidence motion, which, if won, would prevent the dissolution of Parliament. You can be quite sure that those 14 days would be used to ‘read the fortune’ of the rebels such as to secure a change of heart.

If I’m wrong about all of the above and Labour go into an election on a further referendum ticket they will see Leaver votes haemorrhaging to the Tories or, more likely, a resurgent UKIP (particularly when Farage gets bored of retirement and comes back). McDonnell knows this, hence him trying to fudge the fudge yesterday. In part, Labour would be hung on its own rhetoric from the past – how many times have you blamed the influx of European labour for low wages? For example, on 16th December 2016:

I've spoken on this board and out in the real world on this matter and his comments echo my own , cheap labour is the driving force behind poor wages and the narratives that evolve from that very issue .

It's time Corbyn , Abbott and Starmer woke up and faced reality , cheap labour is killing our wages , leads to exploitive management practices and undermine's any chance of collective bargaining .

These are things that Labour under Corbyn should be addressing first , the open door migration policy that they stand by will always inhibit any progress they seek in challenging wage poverty.

EU membership means free movement. In other words, you are suggesting that Labour would go into an election on the very policies that you have been criticising.

As for a no Brexit deal, Labour has just about made that outcome inevitable with its intention to vote against any deal that May brings before Parliament. If such a deal gets voted down, there is no other deal. Personally, I think it entirely possible that sufficient Labour MPs will pull back from that insanity and vote with the Tories to push any deal through, just as they have with every other bit of Brexit legislation to date.

[animallittle3]

We wanted to "Take back control" well we reap what we sow. Control in the hands of these self serving incompetant politicians. Control our borders, well this wont have any effect on non eu immigration which is by far the largest chunk and to say we didnt realise the impact OMG ... We should never have left such an important vote go to the people. Sorry ... it was always as any general election does, gets the "lets stick two fingers up votes". So now as the pound has slumps, commodities we buy in Dollars and Euros will rise, so we will see high prices in the shops and fuel pumps and utility bills we become the laughing stock of our closest allies and by largest trading block in the world instead of being held in high regard with concessions other nations couldn't manage. The problem now is even if we did change out mind, we are so discredited, we could never threaten to leave again and would have to adopt even more undesirable EU rules. We will lose many finance and industrial jobs as they go abroad (predicted all the way). Holidays are now 1/3 more expensive that they were 2 years ago so many families cannot afford a Spanish holiday now, hence the rise in Staycation breaks. Sadly the people that this will affect the most are those that rely on the sorts of jobs the EU relationship supports and the social rights protect. Was the EU perfect, far from it but we have many bigger issues facing us such as climate change, foreign terrorism and Russia where we need strong bond with the other great and civilised nations of Europe not alienate them not play Billy Big Britain and up yours. Its our Children that will feel the impact of this decision for decades to come and will not enjoy the freedoms of travel that we are so willing to throw away, just so we can say up yours.

Short Term Pain for Long Term Gain .... Hello would those other trading nations rather do a deal with the EU into France Germany Spain Portugal Italy etc in other word, the largest trading block in the World ... or little Britain ? We will be marginalised ... It is not the 1970's anymore "we never used to be in the EU" ... All rosy way it back then was it ....

We had record employment, we were paying down the deficit (although this is debatable that was the plan), our pound was strong £1.41 / Euro we played a key role in the largest trading block in the world. We could have sorted this from the inside, now we will have to pay to play a bit part role from the outside.

Oh forgot to say... Get those fixed rate mortages in now while the interest rates are relatively low !

Duk , the fractures , divisions and feelings of anger and frustration were there well before we had the referendum , sizzling away .

The referendum simply brought them out and exposed them .

[animallittle3]

What is your planet like, animal. How does it compare to earth?

Let me explain the reality of the last three days for Labour. Facing pressure from its Remainers (whipped up, in part, by Gina Miller), the party came up with the standard political response – a fudge - in which ‘all options’ remain on the table. Within hours McDonnell (a man with far better developed political antenna than most of the Labour leadership) was trying to turn that into a vote only about the terms of an exit. Starmer then hit back today by explicitly interpreting it as a vote on whether to remain.

In other words, Labour aren’t dangling a carrot as you assert – that implies direction and leadership. In fact they are being tossed around and lurching to and fro due to their own internal divisions.

As for Europe bringing the Tories down and ‘Labour striking’, how do you think that will work? Under the Fixed Term Parliament Act, there are only two routes to an early GE; the first in which two thirds or more of MPs vote for an early General Election, which isn’t going to happen, or the second in which the government lose a vote of no confidence, which can’t happen unless enough Tories or the DUP vote against the government, which, again, isn’t going to happen. Even if by some miracle, enough Tories or the DUP rebelled such as to carry a no confidence motion, the government would then have 14 days to hold another no confidence motion, which, if won, would prevent the dissolution of Parliament. You can be quite sure that those 14 days would be used to ‘read the fortune’ of the rebels such as to secure a change of heart.

If I’m wrong about all of the above and Labour go into an election on a further referendum ticket they will see Leaver votes haemorrhaging to the Tories or, more likely, a resurgent UKIP (particularly when Farage gets bored of retirement and comes back). McDonnell knows this, hence him trying to fudge the fudge yesterday. In part, Labour would be hung on its own rhetoric from the past – how many times have you blamed the influx of European labour for low wages? For example, on 16th December 2016:

I've spoken on this board and out in the real world on this matter and his comments echo my own , cheap labour is the driving force behind poor wages and the narratives that evolve from that very issue .

It's time Corbyn , Abbott and Starmer woke up and faced reality , cheap labour is killing our wages , leads to exploitive management practices and undermine's any chance of collective bargaining .

These are things that Labour under Corbyn should be addressing first , the open door migration policy that they stand by will always inhibit any progress they seek in challenging wage poverty.

EU membership means free movement. In other words, you are suggesting that Labour would go into an election on the very policies that you have been criticising.

As for a no Brexit deal, Labour has just about made that outcome inevitable with its intention to vote against any deal that May brings before Parliament. If such a deal gets voted down, there is no other deal. Personally, I think it entirely possible that sufficient Labour MPs will pull back from that insanity and vote with the Tories to push any deal through, just as they have with every other bit of Brexit legislation to date.

I'm not suggesting anything at all , I'm merely looking at a few possibilities between now and March 29th that could play out , I use the word could in strong terms .

I haven't actually hung my coat to anything on today's offerings on this board .

[b1gduk]

Duk , the fractures , divisions and feelings of anger and frustration were there well before we had the referendum , sizzling away .

The referendum simply brought them out and exposed them .

I know, the Sun has a lot to answer for. I never read it , I preferred to live in the real world and make my own mind up and Not be drip fed properganda by a Media tycoon who is kingpin at the top of our polical pyramid.

[KerrAvon]

I'm not suggesting anything at all , I'm merely looking at a few possibilities between now and March 29th that could play out , I use the word could in strong terms .

I haven't actually hung my coat to anything on today's offerings on this board .

It must be very confusing for you when holding the Labour line involves doing doing a 180 on the things that you have been saying for the last couple of years.

The Labour position is bonkers. Their blind desire for power is going to deliver the very no deal Brexit that they have claimed to want to avoid.