Tony Blair in running for fa

[monty_rhodes]

I think most Labour supporters would more look look towards the democratic socialism of the Nordic model when identifying as socialists, which I don't think can be said to be delivering misery to the masses. Little bit of a cheap straw man to imply they're all communists or aspire to the likes of Venezuela.

And Blair is hated amongst Labour supporters because of Iraq. That's a simple one.

Nordic model? Is that the Bristolian variety of Champagne Socialism where we all speculate in ******* and spend our lives driving around Europe "following the snow"?

[Masbroughstreet]

He isn't in the running to be head of the FA at all. He's allegedly in the running to be chairman of the Premier League.

[Lolmorgan]

When there is some easy money to be made he’s not going to miss that trick.There is a lot of money going into the prem lge easy pickings.

[great_fire]

Indeed I did, Frog.

The PPIs, why the hospitals are skint now and the new schools were only built to last about 30 years or something.

[great_fire]

Tony Blair achieved much more than most PMs. Northern Ireland, Minimum Wage, BOE Independence, civil partnerships, Welsh Assembly, Scottish parliament, London Mayor, interventions in Sierra Leone and Kosovo - where he remains a hero. He got Iraq wrong. Perhaps. But basically this means he took a dump in a sh*thole. The idea that all these nasty Jihadists would be model citizens but for the Iraq War is simple idiocy. And he wouldn't have fallen into the Brexit fiasco. Oh, I forgot; he's a horrible guy 'cos he stood up to Russia and didn't rrse kiss deranged Marxists in Venezuela like Jezzer.
And where does this myth that labour is or ought to be "Socialist"? I can't remember seeing the word even used on several manifestoes and no Labour government has seriously attempted to bring the means of production into public ownership.

What about building up a massive public debt, using mass immigration to change the country, meaning cheap labour, no wages rises or raise in standard of living for ordinary people, and making some of the worst third world practices common here, using tax credits to build a client state, making houses unaffordable for ordinary people.

A Marxist wrecker with a grin and a shiny suit.

Have a look back at how much better Britain was before Blair and how much more optimistic people were for the future, being able to buy their own houses, wages going up, all the skilled workers I knew were doing fantastic before Blair opened the immigration floodgates.

[Ericsladkilnhurst]

Blair got out while the going was good.

Then let Gordon Brown carry the can for all the sh*t he left.

[Lolmorgan]

Pop up to the walking centre at the RDGH & ask all those who are waiting to be seen if they have paid into the system & you will get a shock,too many free loaders& not enough paying in that’s one big reason it’s skint.

[John2]

Straw man argument, John? That’s fighting talk and more than a bit rich when you claim that I implied 'they're all communists or aspire to the likes of Venezuela.' Perhaps you could take a moment from identifying straw man arguments to point out where I did that?

If people post about a desire for Socialist policies, surely it must be permissible for me to point out the historical and current consequences of that system?

That's fair, I hadn't spotted roly's mention of socialism.... or rather if I had I guess my interpretation of the word is different and it didn't click.

I don't think that interpretation is just true of my liberal Bristol bubble. I suspect roly himself could clarify he wasn't aspiring for a Venezuelan model in using the word? I think when most people talk about socialism in the West these days the vast majority are referring to a capitalist society with a strong welfare state and workers rights.

We could select snippets of quotes from anyone and have them saying things that have aged terribly or don't accurately reflect their positions, and it is fair to quote things people have said... but I base my views on the Labour party based on their manifesto rather than a few select snippets. It's a broad church that encompasses many conflicting views, the stated policy goals seem to me the best metric. Beyond a re-nationalisation of the railways, there isn't much traditionally 'socialist' in there. Capitalism has long won the debate, and these days I think most Western political references to socialism are referring to modern 'democratic socialism'.

I'd be more interested in quotes of Labour politicians aspiring for a takeover of the means of production than a few dated references to Venezuela.

I'm not sure I agree people need to be clear in distinguishing types of socialism these days any more than they need to clarify whether they are referring to happiness or homo***uality when using the word gay. Language evolves, and I believe the word socialism has already evolved here to democratic socialism being the new normal and its a bit disingenuous and straw manesque to make any serious suggestion the Labour party of 2018 aspires to any state takeover of the means of production. I'd happily take a policy from the manifesto that suggests otherwise.

The Lib Dems would have been a more natural home for me once upon a time, but they are guilty in my eyes of the greatest betrayal in British political history and are a completely dead entity. If you want to effect real political change I think you have to be pragmatic about the best vehicle for achieving that. The Lib Dems are a clown car.

I don't particularly care for the views of trade union leaders, but the world is being changed by technology in an unprecedented way. They may not be as wrong and dated as you believe, I think there could be a real role to play as we transition to an entirely new political model beyond capitalism or socialism as the way the world functions changes beyond recognition and the old systems become obsolete.

[animallittle3]

As PM it probably goes with the territory that you take the plaudits for the NI peace settlement .

It was a fantastic achievement but you have to factor in the willingness of Sinn Fein to come to the negotiating table , Bill Clinton's involvement and hardly anyone mentions the work of Mo Mowlem .

Mo Mowlem's work was vastly understated , her down to earth personality and style broke down the barriers with Adams and co and trust was established .

[rolymiller]

Correct John. I am not talking about the Stalinist version of Socialism as Kerr seems to think. Certainly some Marxist principles should be employed and anti capitalist (which is the root/ route of all evil as far as I'm concerned) but democratic socialism in terms of giving ordinary folks a powerful voice in how society is conducted.The most important thing to me is the level playing field where EVERYBODY has an equal chance not just a privileged few who are born into privilege. This for me has got to be a global system as well. The wealthy might have to go without a few yachts, flash cars, holidays, bling etc. but tough luck. I'm not asking them to starve to death or be homeless like many do/ are under capitalism.