Ashley at the game

[ghostrider]

I really don't understand you ghost.

I just don't get your mentality when it comes to Rafa/Ashley.

It's pretty simple and no real gimmicks.

I absolutely hate Rafa's style of football, if it can even be called a style.
I tried like hell to get on board with his football.
I thought the latter part of the last season (after January) was the change to more of the likeable football I knew we could produce.
I knew kenedy was the catalyst, kind of thing, to kick start the underachieving/disconsolate offensive players we had....ensuring they place their emphasis more on putting teams to the sword whilst also retaining their discipline in tracking back when required.

It worked for a while until he resorted to changing it again where we once again went backwards.
However, he managed to get a bit back on track and we finished 10th.

This season with better squad depth and with the addition of Kenedy for the season...he's chosen to go backwards once again.
I'd give him some leeway with some games if I thought he had a real plan of action that caters for the fans enjoyment as much as catering for some of the spoils. But no....he chooses to look after a goal difference by playing not to lose or not to concede at all costs.

In a nutshell, I'd rather play in the championship and having a go with a manager who was a no name but sets out to play football and entertains the fans, rather than watch a so called super world class tactical manager that seems to be able to do no wrong, whilst producing excruciatingly bad football from players that are clearly able to produce much more.

I don't want to sit back saying " yeah we played dire and negative, but Rafa had the players grafting for the cause."
I'm not having it and I want the man out or at best for him to change his attitude and get back to allowing the team/squad to go out and play football without excuses that we just aren't good enough.
I'm not wearing that excuse by anyone.

What would it take for you to agree that Ashley is destroying the club?

When I see that he's destroying the club.
I do not see any signs of it at all.

You want my honest opinion and no gimmicks.
My honest opinion is....he's been clever and shrewd in between taking monetary risks in his tenure.

As it stands right now I'd say he's locking egotist v egotist horns with Rafa...and in that sense, as it stands...I back Ashley insofar as not being stupid enough to hand a manager big money (whatever that amount is) when a manager will not commit.

I honestly do not care about Rafa's CV or who thinks he's some kind of saint...etc, as some people do. I find him stubborn and up his own aris...or to put it plain...an egotist.

Ashley won't let this club die.
There's not that much wrong with this club that can't be tweaked in short order....but... by that, I do not mean challenging for top 6 in short order. I mean the internal structure as much as the fixtures and fittings, down to the training facilities and academies.

Ashley knows he can't win the fans over. He knows by mass opinion that his services are not wanted.
He also knows that he can't walk away without someone paying his price to do so.
Any new owner?
Is it nose off to spite the face, no matter what, as long as he's gone because in the view of many he's destroying the club that's made no inroads since the attempted chancing on taking advantage of other clubs inability to feed into a money frenzy of the time, with the borrowed money that the Hall's and co took advantage of to catapult this club into a dreamland that very few clubs could match.
It nearly worked but we ended up as also-ran.
We kept this up for a short while and had a sniff at Europe.

The football was exciting. The buys were exciting.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul was not even on our horizon, because we didn't care one jot.
Even when Keegan walked away after we went PLC, we didn't really get too flustered.


We moved on by spending money and dragging in big names.
It didn't matter whether those names failed because we would just hound them out and replace them.
We didn't give a tuppeny toss that all this was costing big money to repair.


Why?
Because money was being spent and big name managers were rolling in, plus big names were being added....at more cost. Borrowed money.

We still didn't care. It didn't matter as time went on that we owed money to other clubs for the players bought.
It didn't matter that John Hall was secretly trying to sell the club.


Why?
Because nobody gave a flying falook, as long as we added names to the ranks, with the odd trophy signing of sorts.

The club was falling apart at the seams but lo and behold, as time went on, an unknown billionaire buys the club.
He soon saw the massive damage of that time. Big big money owed and massive debts that needed to be wiped clean.


At the time nobody gave a falook, because we had a billionaire who will see to it that we are flying again.
Get shot of Allardyce and bring in a messiah. This will be the start of something new.


It all fell apart for all the different reasons we all know about and whichever way people choose/chose to see it.

However, roll on today and we've been through a roller coaster ride...but in that ride I've seen many fan changes and many ups and downs of fan surges in opinions for and against Ashley, as well as other matters.
I've seen the arguments that we were too harsh on him because he spent money.
I've seen identified players by Chief scout Graham Carr and him being lauded as a genius to eventual useless no hoper.
I've seen Ashley go from hero to zero.
I've seen adherence to messiah's that deserve their own criticism just as much as Ashley and co.

And in all this time with a build up of hate that's festered into this latest round, turn from an Ashley and Charnley masterstroke in bringing in Rafa to being focused on having a real go when the money was handed out to rebuild.

The feel good of the title and return to the big time with money to spend went pear shaped because Rafa decided it wasn't enough.

He must have thought he was back at Real Madrid or under some blank Liverpool cheque.

Because Newcastle United have won nothing since the Texaco cups.
We've spent a good few years out of the top flight in the times after that.

We've always been also ran but we got that sniff of Hall's era.
An open top bus for promotion from division 1 to premier league. Pavel is a Geordie.
It was fantastic.
The entertainers. Fantastic.

The many bad times....not so clever.

Back to Ashley and two relegations, both with expensive squads but the latter with the most expensively put together squad ever to be relegated from the premier league.
Lack of investment and a way to destroy the club?
No chance as far as I'm concerned.

2 titles and no open top bus under Ashley. We're past that, aren't we?

But we've had Europe, yet it was lucky because Pardew was eventually hated...so it turned into luck.

Ashley's went from loved to liked to despised to hated, to hmmmm maybe he's not as bad.....to , yes he is...to hmmmm...maybe he's not as bad....to hated.
Some even accepting he might be ok but they will decide later if he can be.

The man has seen it all and been though it all.
It's no wonder he won't play ball by taking more risks on the club when a manager can actually appear like the king sitting on Ashley's throne because the people afford Rafa that stance...and yet Ashley sees that stance as a direct poke in his own eye from an employee that's extremely well paid for what he does....or basically for what he refuses to do...both in team selection and refusal to commit.


If Ashley started forcing Rafa to buy players from the Scottish leagues or the lower leagues, then I'd be the first to say he's trying to destroy the club.
The fact that we do spend (even if it's outgoing transfer fees used), even though it might not match the elites or the big chancers. And we also pay extremely good wages...but sustainable one's. I'd say we are safe and certainly not on the end of any destruction.


There's a massive long winded reply, Jammy. That's my stance and I'm under no illusions about how I stand out on it.
As I said earlier. No gimmicks...just my frustrated self also wanting better but seeing it all in a different way to how others see it.

[AP69]

So these debts Ashley paid off

Can you explain how he did that???

Just curious

And the believe what you want crack

Keegan was proven right in a court of law man

[Geordie_Exile_De]

For everyone else to start supporting Ashleys actions
He would then turn against Ashley just so he could be the minority

Loves it

Nail on the head

[pboromag]

I really don't understand you ghost.

I just don't get your mentality when it comes to Rafa/Ashley.

What would it take for you to agree that Ashley is destroying the club?

how can ash be destroying the club
his managers are

rafa is destroying us at the moment

he buys players he doesn't play
he plays players he shouldn't you agree with us on that


he hasn't improved a single player
many especially Lascelles have hit a glass ceiling

we don't play attacking footy we just sit back like a poor mans sparring partner

rafa came here to work for ash
and he stayed
twice apparently he could have walked and didn't

twice ash could have sacked rafa and hasn't

surely if he wanted to ruin the club he would have gotten rid of the world class manager most support

wanting to ruin it and it being ruined are different thiings

did sheppard and his lot want to ruin the club
less and less spending

bringing in some out of date footballers towards the end on ontracts and wages way above their worth

they sold it to ash with no promises of spend etc
they sold it knowing it had a huge debt (especially in terms of 11 years ago)and its immaterial wether ash knew about it it was there created by the northern numpties willing to bankrupt the club
that was ruining it


would they have thrown money at rafa if we went down under them

nope
they didn't have any


the club was destroyed when we decided to be a part of the elite and the plastics came out the woodwork

I loved it when we went down
proper clubs proper grounds

I would have loved for us to stay down and finish top 3 of the fizzy every season and the fun of the playoffs etc

but the club was being destroyed before ash brought it

a bit like the anti thacher brigade

forgetting that labour ruined the mines and shipyards before she did

[Geordie_Jacko]

It's pretty simple and no real gimmicks.

I absolutely hate Rafa's style of football, if it can even be called a style.
I tried like hell to get on board with his football.
I thought the latter part of the last season (after January) was the change to more of the likeable football I knew we could produce.
I knew kenedy was the catalyst, kind of thing, to kick start the underachieving/disconsolate offensive players we had....ensuring they place their emphasis more on putting teams to the sword whilst also retaining their discipline in tracking back when required.

It worked for a while until he resorted to changing it again where we once again went backwards.
However, he managed to get a bit back on track and we finished 10th.

This season with better squad depth and with the addition of Kenedy for the season...he's chosen to go backwards once again.
I'd give him some leeway with some games if I thought he had a real plan of action that caters for the fans enjoyment as much as catering for some of the spoils. But no....he chooses to look after a goal difference by playing not to lose or not to concede at all costs.

In a nutshell, I'd rather play in the championship and having a go with a manager who was a no name but sets out to play football and entertains the fans, rather than watch a so called super world class tactical manager that seems to be able to do no wrong, whilst producing excruciatingly bad football from players that are clearly able to produce much more.

I don't want to sit back saying " yeah we played dire and negative, but Rafa had the players grafting for the cause."
I'm not having it and I want the man out or at best for him to change his attitude and get back to allowing the team/squad to go out and play football without excuses that we just aren't good enough.
I'm not wearing that excuse by anyone.





When I see that he's destroying the club.
I do not see any signs of it at all.

You want my honest opinion and no gimmicks.
My honest opinion is....he's been clever and shrewd in between taking monetary risks in his tenure.

As it stands right now I'd say he's locking egotist v egotist horns with Rafa...and in that sense, as it stands...I back Ashley insofar as not being stupid enough to hand a manager big money (whatever that amount is) when a manager will not commit.

I honestly do not care about Rafa's CV or who thinks he's some kind of saint...etc, as some people do. I find him stubborn and up his own aris...or to put it plain...an egotist.

Ashley won't let this club die.
There's not that much wrong with this club that can't be tweaked in short order....but... by that, I do not mean challenging for top 6 in short order. I mean the internal structure as much as the fixtures and fittings, down to the training facilities and academies.

Ashley knows he can't win the fans over. He knows by mass opinion that his services are not wanted.
He also knows that he can't walk away without someone paying his price to do so.
Any new owner?
Is it nose off to spite the face, no matter what, as long as he's gone because in the view of many he's destroying the club that's made no inroads since the attempted chancing on taking advantage of other clubs inability to feed into a money frenzy of the time, with the borrowed money that the Hall's and co took advantage of to catapult this club into a dreamland that very few clubs could match.
It nearly worked but we ended up as also-ran.
We kept this up for a short while and had a sniff at Europe.

The football was exciting. The buys were exciting.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul was not even on our horizon, because we didn't care one jot.
Even when Keegan walked away after we went PLC, we didn't really get too flustered.


We moved on by spending money and dragging in big names.
It didn't matter whether those names failed because we would just hound them out and replace them.
We didn't give a tuppeny toss that all this was costing big money to repair.


Why?
Because money was being spent and big name managers were rolling in, plus big names were being added....at more cost. Borrowed money.

We still didn't care. It didn't matter as time went on that we owed money to other clubs for the players bought.
It didn't matter that John Hall was secretly trying to sell the club.


Why?
Because nobody gave a flying falook, as long as we added names to the ranks, with the odd trophy signing of sorts.

The club was falling apart at the seams but lo and behold, as time went on, an unknown billionaire buys the club.
He soon saw the massive damage of that time. Big big money owed and massive debts that needed to be wiped clean.


At the time nobody gave a falook, because we had a billionaire who will see to it that we are flying again.
Get shot of Allardyce and bring in a messiah. This will be the start of something new.


It all fell apart for all the different reasons we all know about and whichever way people choose/chose to see it.

However, roll on today and we've been through a roller coaster ride...but in that ride I've seen many fan changes and many ups and downs of fan surges in opinions for and against Ashley, as well as other matters.
I've seen the arguments that we were too harsh on him because he spent money.
I've seen identified players by Chief scout Graham Carr and him being lauded as a genius to eventual useless no hoper.
I've seen Ashley go from hero to zero.
I've seen adherence to messiah's that deserve their own criticism just as much as Ashley and co.

And in all this time with a build up of hate that's festered into this latest round, turn from an Ashley and Charnley masterstroke in bringing in Rafa to being focused on having a real go when the money was handed out to rebuild.

The feel good of the title and return to the big time with money to spend went pear shaped because Rafa decided it wasn't enough.

He must have thought he was back at Real Madrid or under some blank Liverpool cheque.

Because Newcastle United have won nothing since the Texaco cups.
We've spent a good few years out of the top flight in the times after that.

We've always been also ran but we got that sniff of Hall's era.
An open top bus for promotion from division 1 to premier league. Pavel is a Geordie.
It was fantastic.
The entertainers. Fantastic.

The many bad times....not so clever.

Back to Ashley and two relegations, both with expensive squads but the latter with the most expensively put together squad ever to be relegated from the premier league.
Lack of investment and a way to destroy the club?
No chance as far as I'm concerned.

2 titles and no open top bus under Ashley. We're past that, aren't we?

But we've had Europe, yet it was lucky because Pardew was eventually hated...so it turned into luck.

Ashley's went from loved to liked to despised to hated, to hmmmm maybe he's not as bad.....to , yes he is...to hmmmm...maybe he's not as bad....to hated.
Some even accepting he might be ok but they will decide later if he can be.

The man has seen it all and been though it all.
It's no wonder he won't play ball by taking more risks on the club when a manager can actually appear like the king sitting on Ashley's throne because the people afford Rafa that stance...and yet Ashley sees that stance as a direct poke in his own eye from an employee that's extremely well paid for what he does....or basically for what he refuses to do...both in team selection and refusal to commit.


If Ashley started forcing Rafa to buy players from the Scottish leagues or the lower leagues, then I'd be the first to say he's trying to destroy the club.
The fact that we do spend (even if it's outgoing transfer fees used), even though it might not match the elites or the big chancers. And we also pay extremely good wages...but sustainable one's. I'd say we are safe and certainly not on the end of any destruction.


There's a massive long winded reply, Jammy. That's my stance and I'm under no illusions about how I stand out on it.
As I said earlier. No gimmicks...just my frustrated self also wanting better but seeing it all in a different way to how others see it.

No this isn't 'just your frustrated self' this is the opinion of somebody who wants nothing more than to stir things up. Like I've said previously you write in a slightly educated manner with the intention of making yourself sound like you have a solid foundation for your responses. When in the cold light of day your responses are so contradictive to what actually happens at the club. You talk utter drivel because you are obviously obssed with being the minority. Well I can't even call you the minority as it's just you and your mate who I'm adamant is also you. So yeah just YOU.

[HughieG]

Another novel from Ghost. Same conclusion as always: "Rafa isn't giving it a go". Tell me one thing - did Palace give it a go? At home? If yes, then so did we. And you need to stop telling yourself lies.

[ghostrider]

No this isn't 'just your frustrated self' this is the opinion of somebody who wants nothing more than to stir things up. Like I've said previously you write in a slightly educated manner with the intention of making yourself sound like you have a solid foundation for your responses. When in the cold light of day your responses are so contradictive to what actually happens at the club. You talk utter drivel because you are obviously obssed with being the minority. Well I can't even call you the minority as it's just you and your mate who I'm adamant is also you. So yeah just YOU.

There's no contradiction.
My posts are my thoughts. Accept them or don't. You have that choice and I'm fine with whatever you choose.

[ghostrider]

Another novel from Ghost. Same conclusion as always: "Rafa isn't giving it a go". Tell me one thing - did Palace give it a go? At home? If yes, then so did we. And you need to stop telling yourself lies.

If you're happy with that football on a regular basis then good luck to you and I hope you get your fill from it.
As for me, I don't like it and I'm not going to big it up into something it's clearly not. Simple as that.

As for the novel. Read it or don't. You also have that choice and I simply type my thoughts out in answer to questions or from my own summing up of all things Newcastle United.
Who reads it, I don't know. Nobody might read it or plenty might.
The fact is, it's there to read for anyone who wan ts to.
Regardless of what anyone thinks, it's effort for the forum.

[ex_pat_magpie]

There's no contradiction.
My posts are my thoughts. Accept them or don't. You have that choice and I'm fine with whatever you choose.

No you are not happy with that choice because if every one agreed with you would about turn and disagree purely to be contrary.

[ghostrider]

No you are not happy with that choice because if every one agreed with you would about turn and disagree purely to be contrary.

Just because you say it, does not mean it's anything factual.

Go on then, start arguing for Ashley and criticising Rafa and see if I go against it.
You'll find I simply stand by what I say until I accept I could be wrong or whatever...and then I'll re-evaluate.

As it stands I absolutely stand by what I'm saying because I believe I'm being honest about it.
What you decide is your matter and that goes for everyone else.

It's absolutely fine for people to disagree.
Most of the arguments are about Rafa and Ashley etc, so naturally I have my stance that will stand out in many threads, just as you and anyone like-minded will stand out in the same way, only en-masse.

Should I just go along with the majority if I don't accept it?