O/T Brexit

[Elite_Pie]

Let's give it a rest, the gov't say there will be no second referendum, Cameron said it was a one off vote. Only the remainers who can't or won't accept the result wants one.

The question of whether a second vote should take place if a deal is finalised was part of the poll, the exact question being:

"If the UK and the EU agree a deal on the terms of Brexit, would you support or oppose holding a referendum in which voters were asked to choose between: Accepting the deal or Remaining in the EU"?

The results were

Support a second referendum - 42.6%
Oppose a second referendum - 37.4%
Don't know - 20%

Also, you are wrong in claiming "Only the remainers who can't or won't accept the result wants one". The poll showed that 20.2% of people who voted to leave in 2016 now want a second vote.

[Old Roadsider]

The question of whether a second vote should take place if a deal is finalised was part of the poll, the exact question being:

"If the UK and the EU agree a deal on the terms of Brexit, would you support or oppose holding a referendum in which voters were asked to choose between: Accepting the deal or Remaining in the EU"?

The results were

Support a second referendum - 42.6%
Oppose a second referendum - 37.4%
Don't know - 20%

Also, you are wrong in claiming "Only the remainers who can't or won't accept the result wants one". The poll showed that 20.2% of people who voted to leave in 2016 now want a second vote.

A vote on the terms on the deal is fine as long as it doesn't lead to ignoring or derecognising the primary vote to leave by using even more alarmist propaganda.

Surely anyone can see that the 'no deal is better than a bad deal' argument is valid but it doesn't mean we shouldn't leave if the only offer from the EU is a bad one. It's in the EU's interest as well, to give us a decent leaving package and I think there will be major concessions at the final bell. If TM caves in, it's the end for her and the Tory government an will have been a massive, error in judgement which could cause all sorts of harm to our economy if we aren't free to negotiate 'third country' deals in our own interests.

[mark45]

I firmly believe we have got ourselves into such a bad position that deciding to stay would do more damage in the long term. Once we prove it's impossible to leave and not be worse off then the EU can demand all sorts of us in the future in full knowledge we cannot do jack **** about it.

[Old Roadsider]

I firmly believe we have got ourselves into such a bad position that deciding to stay would do more damage in the long term. Once we prove it's impossible to leave and not be worse off then the EU can demand all sorts of us in the future in full knowledge we cannot do jack **** about it.

Basic but to the point, agree.

[Trickytreesreds]

I firmly believe we have got ourselves into such a bad position that deciding to stay would do more damage in the long term. Once we prove it's impossible to leave and not be worse off then the EU can demand all sorts of us in the future in full knowledge we cannot do jack **** about it.

That in a nut shell is it.

The goal was always to drive for a superstate. Pedro can moan about his bus till he is blue in the face.
The fact is we was lied to in 1972 and 1974 by the then government, who knew the British public would never give up sovereignty.
So it was hijacked and sold to the people as a free trade agreement. Heath knew all this and buried it in the 30 year archives under the belief of, that by the time the cat was out the bag it would be to late. He was right, except for the time scale. (it's all there, look it up).

Since then, we have seen a common currency/free movement/release of internal powers/ a flag/ a national anthem/ and a very soon army be introduced.
We as a nation have come close to messing up, but by avoiding Schengen and the Euro have delayed the big picture.

Now we find ourselves at a crossroads. If they get us to remain, then it's all over. No one will ever leave again.
We need to see this through and other countries are teetering and watching.
House of cards, that has see a surge in the far right across europe. As you well know, I go to Bavaria as often as possible. In 4 years I have seen a massive change in attitude. They are as pissed off as us with the decisions the EU elite make. But for them, the resultants are far more hostile than anything here.

So make your minds up. In or out?
Superstate or not?

I'd love to see the EU reform, but it's been hijacked by globalists.
These people cannot be removed by democracy. It is as close to the politburo as you can get.

[Old Roadsider]

The EU has been like a creeping cancer, slowly at first but gradually infecting every part of society, as TTR states, it was never intended to be the animal it became.

Had it remained true to it's original aims of simply unburdening business and trade of bureaucracy, it would have continued as a worthy institution.

[i961pie]

The question of whether a second vote should take place if a deal is finalised was part of the poll, the exact question being:

"If the UK and the EU agree a deal on the terms of Brexit, would you support or oppose holding a referendum in which voters were asked to choose between: Accepting the deal or Remaining in the EU"?

The results were

Support a second referendum - 42.6%
Oppose a second referendum - 37.4%
Don't know - 20%

Also, you are wrong in claiming "Only the remainers who can't or won't accept the result wants one". The poll showed that 20.2% of people who voted to leave in 2016 now want a second vote.

Why don't they ask the remainers who have come out and said we didn't vote to leave but accept the democratic decision and don't want a second referendum and want the government to get on with it.
And excuse me if I don't have much confidence in polls. Didn't the polls before the referendum say remain would win easily, and didn't they say that the Tories would easily win the last election? And the election before that they predicted a hung parliament, and wasn't Clinton supposed to be the next president according to the polls?
Let us wait and see what kind of deal we get (if any) before asking hypothetical questions because it seems to be all what ifs at the moment.

[Elite_Pie]

Why don't they ask the remainers who have come out and said we didn't vote to leave but accept the democratic decision and don't want a second referendum.

They did. 17.5% of those who voted to remain in 2016 aren't in favour of a second referendum.

[LaughingMagpie]

The question of whether a second vote should take place if a deal is finalised was part of the poll, the exact question being:

"If the UK and the EU agree a deal on the terms of Brexit, would you support or oppose holding a referendum in which voters were asked to choose between: Accepting the deal or Remaining in the EU"?

The results were

Support a second referendum - 42.6%
Oppose a second referendum - 37.4%
Don't know - 20%

Also, you are wrong in claiming "Only the remainers who can't or won't accept the result wants one". The poll showed that 20.2% of people who voted to leave in 2016 now want a second vote.

If there were to be another referendum (which has already been ruled out) surely the question should be between accepting the deal or no deal! Remaining in the EU is not an option as we have already voted to leave.

And by the way, Channel 4 are even more left leaning remainers than the BBC are! I wouldn't read too much into their poll results!

[the_anticlough]

Yes, lots of indications now that the 'wlll of the people' is to stay in the EU.
There has to be a vote on what to do next, now that the public is much better informed of the issues on both sides. And especially since May has botched everything, two years to reach what would be a 'blind brexit' is pretty unforgivable.